<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thank you Robert,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>This site was very helpful </span></font><a
href="http://www.fuelcellsworks.com/Companies.html"><font color=black><span
style='color:windowtext'>http://www.fuelcellsworks.com/Companies.html</span></font></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I agree that solar DC to split H2O to H2 is the best way to
go and this company seems to have the most robust H2 system for powering a
home:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <a
href="http://www.havepower.com/Questions/Engineering_Questions/engineering_questions.html"><font
color=black><span style='color:windowtext'>http://www.havepower.com/Questions/Engineering_Questions/engineering_questions.html</span></font></a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>H2 is very explosive though and setting up the electrolyzing
set in a stand alone shed from the main house still doesn’t make me feel
safe. And you just can’t rely on timely H2 delivery to power your
home.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>This company <a
href="http://www.mesoscopic.com/article_flat.fcm?articleid=828&subsite=9209"><font
color=black><span style='color:windowtext'>http://www.mesoscopic.com/article_flat.fcm?articleid=828&subsite=9209</span></font></a>
has a delightful little model that runs on propane or kerosene (good delivery
infrastructure) and if a large DC battery bank with AC inverter were setup so
that 3 of these little baby’s switched on when the batteries drained
below 90% then I think my in-development-ultra-contempo-modern- home-model has
a new power source ! <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks again !<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>pete<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org
[mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Robert Bradbury<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, February 17, 2006
3:16 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> ExI chat list<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [extropy-chat]
Hydrogen cells</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On 2/17/06, <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Peter K. Bertine, Jr</span></b>
<<a href="mailto:pkbertine@hotmail.com">pkbertine@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Does anyone know of practical hydrogen cell technology that could be<br>
utilized for off the grid home power?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
Your best bet is solar to DC electric to split H2O and then use the H2
directly. Appliances that can run off of methane (natural gas) can
probably run off of H2 as well. You just have to be more careful about
the connections so it doesn't leak. H2 also has the nasty property that
it embrittles metals that are not designed to specifically transport it. <br>
<br>
Alternatively you can use anaerobic bacteria (methanogens) to convert most
biomaterial (animal waste, garbage, etc.) into methane and use that.<br>
<br>
If you are talking *just* the fuel cells, then I believe a number of companies
off them. FuelCellWorks.com looks like a good portal, see: <a
href="http://www.fuelcellsworks.com/Companies.html">http://www.fuelcellsworks.com/Companies.html</a><br>
<br>
Google lists something like 1.8 million pages for "Hydrogen fuel cell
prices" so you may want to refine your search criteria as much as
possible. <br>
<br>
It is worth noting that most hydrogen production is now done from methane which
comes out of the ground. That makes the hydrogen both expensive and
dependent upon a unsustainable (and potentially global ecology damaging)
resource. <br>
<br>
The best resource would be solar + H2O + CO2 directly to methane or solar + H2O
directly to hydrogen but genome engineering isn't quite up to that task
yet. The major flaws in the U.S./DOE push towards hydrogen are (1) the
current non-sustainable production methods and (2) the complete lack of
infrastructure ( e.g. tanks, pipelines & trucks) capable of storing or
transporting it. Even if a miracle of nanoengineering results in
inexpensive solar splitting of water to yield H2 one *still* hasn't solved the
storage and transport problems. Methane from solar is absolutely the way
to go because it can go directly into existing pipelines or be converted into
propane or even octane and use existing infrastructure. <br>
<br>
Robert<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>