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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><FONT
face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#000000><FONT size=3><SPAN
class=215512603-03032006>> </SPAN>If even Extropians claim that science
describes a meaningless world, using evolution as the edge of the axe, is it
any </FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><FONT
face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#000000><FONT size=3><SPAN
class=215512603-03032006>> </SPAN>wonder that people who still want to
believe in something worthwhile reject evolution? Can you really blame
them?</FONT></FONT></FONT><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=215512603-03032006><STRONG>No more than I would blame a drug addict for
rejecting the </STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=215512603-03032006><STRONG>obvious consequences of denying the reality of
the continued</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=215512603-03032006><STRONG>use of drugs even when that use is obviously
killing the person.</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=215512603-03032006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=215512603-03032006>(Notice drug usage does not necessarily imply
addiction, but</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=215512603-03032006>many
people are not smart enough to see the difference when</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=215512603-03032006>it
applies to themselves.)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=215512603-03032006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=215512603-03032006><STRONG>Such a cry for 'meaning' is merely to
blame the messenger (i.e., Science);</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=215512603-03032006><STRONG>if there is no meaning in life then this is not
the fault of Science for </STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=215512603-03032006><STRONG>showing reality -- just the facts,
m'am.</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=215512603-03032006><STRONG></STRONG></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=215512603-03032006><STRONG>If reality doesn't supply the meaning you wish,
then you must</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=215512603-03032006><STRONG>invent that meaning for yourself -- if you wish
to do so honestly</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=215512603-03032006><STRONG>(i.e., intellectual honesty) then it is
important to remember that</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=215512603-03032006><STRONG>YOU (or I) invented that
meaning...</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=215512603-03032006><STRONG></STRONG></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=215512603-03032006><STRONG>To use wishful thinking to project meaning onto
the inanimate<BR>and unintelligent is mere superstition or
ignorance.</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV><FONT size=+0><SPAN
class=215512603-03032006>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><STRONG>Now it is surprising that
the 'average person' is unable to<BR>understand and recognize the difference
between self-determined</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV></SPAN></FONT><SPAN class=215512603-03032006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><STRONG>'meaning' and projecting that onto the
world?</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=215512603-03032006><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=215512603-03032006><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>No, since most people are very poorly trained in logic and scientific
methods.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=215512603-03032006><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=215512603-03032006><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>We're this not so Lotteries could not exist (as currently constituted),
</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=215512603-03032006><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>being largely a tax upon the mathematically ignorant or the
superstitiously</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=215512603-03032006><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>illogical.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=215512603-03032006><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
<P><FONT size=2><SPAN class=215512603-03032006>--<BR></SPAN>Herb
Martin</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=2></FONT> </P><FONT size=2></FONT><FONT size=2></FONT><FONT
size=2></FONT><BR>
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style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org
[mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Russell
Wallace<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 02, 2006 8:56 PM<BR><B>To:</B> ExI
chat list<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [extropy-chat] Reverse Evolution
?<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>On 3/1/06, <B class=gmail_sendername>spike</B> <<A
href="mailto:spike66@comcast.net">spike66@comcast.net</A>> wrote:
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote></SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">A
big part of the reason why so many report not believing in evolution
is<BR>that it is so widely misunderstood. This has been shown in
surveys, where<BR>test takers reported having learned more about evolution
by taking the <BR>survey than in any other exposure to the
discipline. Evolution is widely<BR>caricatured by fish crawling
out on land, becoming an ape then a human, as<BR>if evolution has a
particular direction. Cartoon images can have enormous
<BR>impact, as we have seen. Stephen J. Gould has written
extensively on this<BR>misconception and its affect on the public.<SPAN
class=215512603-03032006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>I'm quite
disappointed at the direction this conversation is taking here.<BR><BR>I'm
going to copy some paragraphs I wrote on another list:<BR><BR>"Western
civilization has followed Christianity for the last two thousand years, but
lately many people are finding that religion no longer works for them, and are
either formally leaving it or merely paying lip service. (I think this is at
least in part because, while there is much that is good in Christianity, it is
unfortunately often lumped in with belief in the literal truth of myths like
the Garden of Eden and Noah's Ark, which do not appear to be consistent with
the way the world we live in works; but that's another
matter.)<BR><BR>Contrary to the hopes of some prominent atheists, this has not
led to an era of enlightened rationalism, but to disaffectation, superstition
and nihilism. Yet contrary to some cynics, I don't believe this is by and
large due to stupidity (the average disaffected teenager effortlessly grasps
social situations I was still struggling with in my 20s) or lack of education
(we have a grinding surfeit of that, at least quantitatively). I think it's
because the modern world view is presented so badly.<BR><BR>There is plenty of
beauty in real science and technology, and plenty of hope if they are employed
by wise and rational ethics. There should be no need to resort to superstition
as a psychological defense mechanism or resign oneself in despair to the idea
that only what one can grasp for oneself at this moment is of any account; and
there would not be, were the world described by science not so often wrongly
portrayed as empty and meaningless."<BR><BR>Of all the places I would have
hoped to see the meaning and beauty in the real world remarked on, it would be
extropy-chat, the mailing list of the philosophy of progress itself. Yet I see
it said or implied that evolution has no direction, that humans are no better
than chimpanzees, that Gould's empty nihilism corrects a
misconception.<BR><BR>Most people aren't specialists in science. (If they
were, we'd all have starved to death long ago.) They reasonably rely on those
of us who are, to tell them what science says and implies.<BR><BR>If even
Extropians claim that science describes a meaningless world, using evolution
as the edge of the axe, is it any wonder that people who still want to believe
in something worthwhile reject evolution? Can you really blame them?<BR><BR>-
Russell<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>