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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anna,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Robert has some VERY good points here. I am one of
the outsiders. I am not part of the clique and never had the benefit of a
college life. Instead, I am entirely self-taught. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It is important for you to know that although you
are not the genius that some here seem to be, you still have a contribution to
make. For example, I would hate to imagine Charles Darwin, med-school
drop-out, keeping his ideas to himself.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This list has a variety of people from all walks of
life. Each of these people has their own talents, and their own problems. You
will find that some here suffer from an inability to remain silent. They must
point out every thing that doesn;t make perfect sense to them so that they can
improve their own self-esteem. This is not altogether bad. In
fact, critical review is necessary. But you have to be tough to handle
it and learn to use it constructively.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You will also find that there are some excellent
people here. One I think very highly of is Robert. A couple years ago I threw
out the idea of manufacturing meat rather than getting it from animals.
Several people proceeded to tell me how ignorant I was and how I needed to go
back to school. Robert came to my defense and I was very pleased. Then this
article came out last year. <A
href="http://www.newsdesk.umd.edu/scitech/release.cfm?ArticleID=1098">http://www.newsdesk.umd.edu/scitech/release.cfm?ArticleID=1098</A> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I felt vindicated. But what is really troubling was
that I had let the incident affect my own self-esteem and had went back to
lurking for a time. Robert is wonderfully patient and willing to entertain
some ideas that are way outside of the mainstream. But at the same time,
this leads to a lot of dead-ends. Sometimes I wonder how Robert can research and
post on so many different subjects, keep track of his references, and still find
time to "feed the trolls" as it is called around here. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>After this article, I realized that my thoughts are
no less important than those of a "genius" and that education can sometimes
actually get in the way of real learning. This is not to knock the educational
establishment. It is necessary as most of the new science and technology is
built on the work of others. In fact, so few breakthroughs come from anywhere
else, that it is easy to understand how some are lulled into a belief that their
education makes them superior. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My advice is to critique your own work before you
post it. Make sure it really is something that you are willing to subject to
ridicule. Swimming with sharks can be a truly educational, exhilarating, and
rewarding experience. Just be careful about the bait that you jump into the
shark pit with. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Kevin Freels</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><BR>Anna,<BR><BR>I
agree with Gina. There is nothing wrong with being somewhat different,
particularly if one is trying to explain and communicate different
thoughts. One of the problems in communicating with people is in
recognizing that you are ultimately trying to get the other person to recreate
in their mind the equivalent of the neural connections that you have in your
mind -- and we are using very cumbersome methods (speaking "symbol, symbol,
symbol, ..." to the other person) and hoping that they can develop an
understanding similar to that which we have. In the particular case
under discussion it looks like you created a logical disconnect among some
list members because you were attempting to serve as an interpreter between
one "reality" (extropianism/transhumanism) and another reality (based upon
'faith'?) using language (science & physics) which can have problems in
both realms. (At least that is my subjective impression based on brief
readings of some of the conversation.) <BR><BR>The ExI list is a rather rough
and tumble environment because most of the people have a strong background in
science and rational debate (as well as pick a whole host of other
topics). So if one frames a communication which is significantly in
departure from the common knowledge base it leads people to "creative"(?)
speculation about what the communicator may not understand, be
misinterpreting, etc. <BR><BR>As a side note, I'm still rather pissed about
the general direction the list seems to be taking which is that you can join
the "club" if you scored 800's on your SATs at the age of 16 or have a degree
from Caltech but god forbid you should walk into the club and demonstrate some
ignorance or ideas which conflict with the "club reality". <BR><BR>Do not be
completely offended Anna, there are at least a few of us here who may wonder
how various people connect the dots from time to time are open minded enough
to ask whether or not there might be some wisdom in those pathways.
<BR><BR>Perhaps what we need is an extropy(transhumanist?)-novices
list...<BR>As things appear now the "club" is never going to transition from a
"clique" to a robust educational and transformational vehicle (IMO). If
that is true, then there should be warnings and/or messages posted on the
mailing list signup pages and in the monthly notices that this isn't "really"
about "chatting" unless the chat topic happens to be one which interests the
"clique". <BR><BR>(if you respond to the last couple of paragraphs, you may
want to change the Subject...)<BR><BR>Robert<BR><BR>
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