<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.3790.2630" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I'm just going to try to clarify for
my own understanding. If one accepts that only the 'pattern' of information is
necessary and sufficient for establishing identity, then if I made a perfect
copy of myself, would I not expect a stream of experiences from both (or all)
'versions' simultaneously? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=449032021-05042006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><STRONG>Not unless you hooked up inputs and outputs among all the
copies.</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=449032021-05042006><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=449032021-05042006><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>From the point in time of the copy you(plural) would be separate
individuals</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=449032021-05042006><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>under most expected scenarios -- very analogous to identical twins
(triplets, etc)</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=449032021-05042006><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>except you would be identical in much of your NURTURE up to the
moment</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=449032021-05042006><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>of copying.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=449032021-05042006><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=449032021-05042006><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Just like when some copies a computer program to another machine.<BR>Most
of the time the two copies don't even communicate with each
other,</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=449032021-05042006><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>and if they do it is usually in a limited manner. For such copies
their</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=449032021-05042006><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>communication would likely be through normal (human) means of
conversation</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=449032021-05042006><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>OR perhaps through new (computer network and data exchange)
methods</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=449032021-05042006><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>that only work well (now) for computer based
systems.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If I made many copies, would I
effectively become a hive-mind? <BR><BR><SPAN
class=449032021-05042006><STRONG>Almost certainly no. (i.e., only if you
specifically arranged for that and</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=449032021-05042006><STRONG>it likely would NOT be the
default.)</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=449032021-05042006><STRONG></STRONG></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=449032021-05042006></SPAN>But if your answer is yes, then how can this be
so? Given that the human mind (as it is now) is incapable of *directly*
accessing other minds. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=449032021-05042006><STRONG>Part of the reason this would not (likely) be
the default configuration.<BR><BR>Once digitized we made be able to add new
capabilities, including new</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=449032021-05042006><STRONG>communications and integration
modules.</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=449032021-05042006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Would the bandwidth (direct mind
access ability) of my own mind mysteriously double if make a single perfect copy
of myself? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=449032021-05042006><STRONG>If you are measuring core bandwidth it probably
would but just like multiple</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=449032021-05042006><STRONG>computers typically CANNOT take advantage of
multiple hardware platforms</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=449032021-05042006><STRONG>to work together cooperatively that would be an
"extra feature", perhaps not</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=449032021-05042006><STRONG>available in "Version 1.0 Mind Upload
Kit".</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=449032021-05042006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>It doesn't seem like it should -
because that would seem to imply an instantaneou s and significant
alteration to the physical arrangement of my brain (which seems unlikely), but
perhaps I'm wrong.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=449032021-05042006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><STRONG>Assuming you kept the SAME (current) input/output configuration
(or</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=449032021-05042006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><STRONG>a simulation of that) then you would not see these
effects.</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=449032021-05042006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><STRONG>You are confusing the "copy" with a reconfiguration of the
Input/Output</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=449032021-05042006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><STRONG>systems AND/or the Biological Operating Systems, or even
extensions</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=449032021-05042006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><STRONG>to those current systems.</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=449032021-05042006></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P><FONT size=2>Herb Martin</FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></P><FONT size=2></FONT><FONT size=2></FONT><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org
[mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>A
B<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 05, 2006 3:14 PM<BR><B>To:</B> ExI chat
list<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [extropy-chat] I keep asking
myself...<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Hi Ben,</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm just going to try to clarify for my own understanding. If one accepts
that only the 'pattern' of information is necessary and sufficient for
establishing identity, then if I made a perfect copy of myself, would I not
expect a stream of experiences from both (or all) 'versions' simultaneously?
If I made many copies, would I effectively become a hive-mind? But if your
answer is yes, then how can this be so? Given that the human mind (as it
is now) is incapable of *directly* accessing other minds. Would the bandwidth
(direct mind access ability) of my own mind mysteriously double if make a
single perfect copy of myself? It doesn't seem like it should - because that
would seem to imply an instantaneou s and significant alteration to the
physical arrangement of my brain (which seems unlikely), but perhaps I'm
wrong.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Best Wishes,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jeffrey Herrlich (I'm going to change the A B thing one of these
days) <BR><BR><B><I>ben <benboc@lineone.net></I></B>
wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">From:
A B <AUSTRIAAUGUST@YAHOO.CO M>:<BR><BR>> no one here seems to be
addressing the basic rights of these <BR>> "copies". As a living,
conscious being, I'm not sure it is ethically<BR>> correct to force
specific decisions and lifestyles on these "copies"<BR>> as if they we re
simply toys - devoid of basic rights that an <BR>> "original" version
would presumably have. To me it seems there is <BR>> little difference
between the value of an "original" and a "copied" <BR>> being; once it is
created, it has every righ t to do with itself <BR>> whatever *it* wishes
(short of harming any other being).<BR><BR><BR>Sure, i agree totally about
the rights of other people, but we're not<BR>talking about other people. I'm
imagining a copy - an EXACT copy - of<BR>me. In other words, it's me (in my
view. I know there are those who<BR>would disagree with this 'patternist'
view).<BR>So 'imposing' any kind of behaviour on such a copy is a non-issue,
any <BR>more than imposing it on yourself would be. I f you do force
yourself to <BR>do anything, you have good reason (i hope!) to, and do it
with your own <BR>full consent.<BR>Granted, over time, these copies would
inevitable diverge, and that's <BR>something to be considered. But
personally, i wouldn't be averse to <BR>imposing some kind of mental
constraint on myself in order to attain <BR>some pre-decided goal (such as
sending a copy of myself to Pluto and <BR>back, then merging with my
stay-at-home version), and be pretty much <BR>guaranteed that w e would
still want to merge. I would certainly not be <BR>pleased if some authority
tried to tell me that i wasn't allowed to put <BR>those kind of constraints
on
myself.<BR><BR>ben<BR>_______________________________________________<BR>extropy-chat
mailing
list<BR>extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org<BR>http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<P>
<HR SIZE=1>
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. <A
href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman6/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=39663/*http://voice.yahoo.com">Call
regular phones from your PC</A> and save big.</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>