<B><I>Samantha Atkins <sjatkins@mac.com></I></B> wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> <div>On May 25, 2006, at 10:22 AM, A B wrote:<BR><BR>> Although I was completely sincere in everything I wrote in my last <BR>> post on this thread, I realize that it may have come across as <BR>> excessively morbid. I did not mean to put a damper on this <BR>> particular topic; perhaps I can rephrase my position on this.<BR>><BR>> My vision of the Singularity has been where the whole purpose of <BR>> the Singularity is to bring more "Goodness" to this blindly cruel <BR>> and indifferent Universe. If the Singularity is not about bringing <BR>> universal joy, love, compassion, and beauty to this dead Universe, <BR>> then *what* is its purpose? Does the Singularity boil down to a <BR>> frenzied power struggle? Where the "winner" is rightfully entitled <BR>> to do *anything* ve
wishes in the name of "Freedom", with zero <BR>> regard for morality? A struggle where the primary deciding factor <BR>> is purely blind luck - being at the right place at the right time? <BR>> I'm sorry, but that's a really f****d up reason for pursuing the <BR>> Singularity.<BR><BR>Samantha wrote:</div> <div>It is about bringing more intelligence and greater possibilities to <BR>this corner of the universe. Whether it achieves or can achieve a <BR>bunch of utopian universals or not does not gate whether it is <BR>desirable. I do not know and rather doubt whether such a list as <BR>"universal joy, love, compassion, beauty" is even well defined much <BR>less achievable. It is not utter perfect utopia or total <BR>dystopia. The actuality is likely to be more complex and <BR>multifarious than that.<BR></div> <div>Anna wrote:</div> <div>>>Then you have no idea what utopia is. I'm sorry to hear that.</div> <div>>>Just an opinion.</div>
<div><BR>A B wrote:</div> <div>> If we believe that someone in the future should be allowed to do <BR>> absolutely *anything*, then we should allow someone in the future <BR>> to trigger an existential disaster that ends all life, in the name <BR>> of "Freedom". Note: I am not at all advocating this action, I'm <BR>> just pointing out a glaring contradiction within this particular <BR>> philosophy.</div> <div> </div> <div>Samantha wrote:</div> <div>It is not a contradiction. Freedom includes the possibility to <BR>really screw up.</div> <div> </div> <div>Anna wrote: A really good point</div> <div><BR>AB wrotre:<BR>> What exactly is the quality that makes a "simulated" being of lower <BR>> value and importance than a "real" being? Both are comprised of <BR>> hardware and software, and they both exist at the "real" layer of <BR>> "reality". One is simply a slave and the other a master. Does a <BR>> "real" being have some
mystical birthright that gives it absolute <BR>> authority over a newly created "simulated" being? No. One being was <BR>> simply lucky (and born early) and the other being was simply very <BR>> misfortunate (and born late).<BR><BR>Samantha wrote:</div> <div>Then you don't play violent video games? At what level of <BR>complexity of software based characters would you stop playing or <BR>outlaw the games? The actual questions are much more complex than <BR>just saying "no suffering allowed" in created realities. As I have <BR>argued there will be suffering in any reality containing autonomous <BR>beings. We agree on not inflicting suffering as in torture and so on.<BR></div> <div>>>Anna wrote:</div> <div>>>No I don't. I don't play games. Reality is reality and virtual reality </div> <div>>>is virtual reality. Two different causes. </div> <div> </div> <div>AB Wrote:</div> <div>> This would basically be the
same result as if today, half the <BR>> world's population rounded up the other half and proceeded to <BR>> torture them mercilessly. The difference would be that in the <BR>> future, the victims of torture could be made to never die, and <BR>> instead endure terrible pain for all eternity (or for at least as <BR>> long as the Universe exists).<BR><BR>Samantha:</div> <div>This is a straw man that was not advocated.<BR>I agree - Anna<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>extropy-chat mailing list<BR>extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org<BR>http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat<BR></div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><p>
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