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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Re rights:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>We started with divine rights of kings, then natural rights,
then human rights; however there is a fourth type -- rights derived from
reason. Most schools of philosophy fall into two camps: one based on
supernatural metaphysics (religious, Plato’s “forms”,
mysticism, etc.) and the other based on the metaphysics of science and reason. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Divine, natural, and human rights as stated come from that
first camp, what rights come from reason & science, or the other camp of
philosophy? I am not asking the members of the list to re-create objectivism by
any means, however you should recognize that there is another source of rights.
One camp followed from Plato to Hobbes to Kant to modern philosophers, the
other from Aristotle to Bacon, to Locke, to objectivism. One camp is the camp
of religion, the other of science.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>So if rights based on the supernatural do not exist, and I
submit they don’t for your client, then rights based on science & reason
are the only ones that would serve his need. Why both science and reason?
Because reason alone becomes unproven theory after several steps up the ladder
of metaphysics, and slowly metamorphoses into faith. If as you step that ladder
you prove the assumptions supporting the next, then it becomes less faith and
more a prognosis, forecast, theory, or projection.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Going to Amara’s claim of right to body, and another’s
of right to mind, that right derives from something. Going to Camus, one of the
earliest debates you should have is “does life have purpose, meaning,
value, or not” Camus posits that the next question that follows if you
answer “not” is “why am I still hanging around then?” <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>So, my assumption is that all reading the list value life to
some extent, and think it has purpose derived from some form of metaphysics. If
you don’t think it has value and purpose & have refused to answer the
“why am I still hanging around” please don’t get in the way
of the folks who do think it has meaning and value as a pure courtesy if you
would.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>So the start point might be “if Amara thinks life has
purpose and value, and determines from that the right of ownership of her body,
what reason-derived moral begets that?”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Now I am suggesting a potential purpose -- you might
consider members of this list as belonging to the church of “We are
Becoming God”, based on science, reason, and projections. We have no
proof that the singularity will come, but we have a reasoned projection. At
some point current trends projected onward we will reach a point of
transhumanity. That could be characterized as faith by some. What then lies
beyond the singularity, will we become at some point omnipresent and
omniscient, or godlike? If we are becoming god, is that faith or science?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Re: health care<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>One note on the socialized vs. free enterprise medicine
chain: There are too many other factors beyond health care affecting life
expectancy in any given region that Life-expectancy alone cannot determine
which is best. E.g. Living in the <st1:country-region w:st="on">US</st1:country-region>
in some cities is inherently more dangerous than living anywhere in the <st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">UK</st1:place></st1:country-region>. Indeed,
living in <st1:City w:st="on">Los Angeles</st1:City>, <st1:City w:st="on">Chicago</st1:City>,
<st1:City w:st="on">Baltimore</st1:City>, and some other large cities is statistically
more dangerous for 21-39 year old males than patrolling <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Baghdad</st1:place></st1:City> with the Marines. There are also culturally
more risk-takers in the <st1:country-region w:st="on">US</st1:country-region>
than most comparable countries; witness the recent phenomena of extreme sports
which didn’t start in <st1:place w:st="on">Europe</st1:place>. <st1:country-region
w:st="on">US</st1:country-region> citizens travel more frequently and longer to
work than most other countries (just an outcome of population densities) The
most comparable countries would be <st1:country-region w:st="on">Russia</st1:country-region>,
<st1:country-region w:st="on">China</st1:country-region>, and <st1:country-region
w:st="on">Canada</st1:country-region>, however <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Canada</st1:place></st1:country-region> has a much lower death rate
from violence. The other two examples belie the argument for socialized health
care. (note: I am discounting <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Australia</st1:place></st1:country-region>
because it’s largely undeveloped and under-populated once you leave the
coastlines, if you go to JPL the “earthlights” photo clearly
demonstrates that.)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>One other note: Someone asked how to get the best health
care based on the article regarding emergency rooms full to overflowing. The
answer is simple, move to where they aren’t. I live two blocks from a
great hospital in a suburban area well away from major metropolitan areas. The
second benefit is that my house is on the same power grid, and even when ice
storms take out the power over the metropolitan area, the power is always put
back on here the quickest.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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