<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On Jun 28, 2006, at 5:27 PM, Russell Wallace wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">On 6/29/06, <A href="mailto:nvitamore@austin.rr.com">nvitamore@austin.rr.com</A><DIV><SPAN class="gmail_quote"><B class="gmail_sendername"></B> <<A href="mailto:nvitamore@austin.rr.com">nvitamore@austin.rr.com</A>> wrote: </SPAN><BLOCKQUOTE class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">I'd like to take this a step further. Can you find parallels in society in<BR>which a movement was developed for the sake of survival? <BR> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR> Well, that's a good question... "for the sake of" is a tricky one.<BR> <BR> For example, if you look at the historical aspect of the events described in the Old Testament, it's clear that the Jewish religion helped the Israelite tribe survive in that harsh and hostile environment. But did the founders of that religion have that in mind? Did they think "we should start believing this because it will give our tribe the cohesion it needs to survive"? That's not so clear; perhaps they just believed for quite different reasons that God had given them certain directions, and the outcome is recorded as a result of a selection filter.<BR> <BR> Mind you, perhaps the same applies to transhumanism: Did its founders think "we need to throw all our efforts behind this idea because humanity has a finite window of time in which to ascend or pass on"? Or did they have different motives such as freedom and self-actualization?<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I am not sure the question is one of the motivation of "the founders" so much as it is a question of what motivates each of us. Both of the above are part of what motivates me. </DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>Mere survival does not say much about the development of transhumanism or most ideologies. Humans in large numbers have sacrificed even survival to their ideologies. So it seems clear that 'survival' is a poor candidate by itself. It also leaves open a question or two such as "survival as what and on what terms"? If we say transhumanism is about survival others will cry out that their survival as themselves and the survival of what they care most about requires them to utterly oppose us. </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>- samantha</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV></BODY></HTML>