<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]--><o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"/>
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Forwarded for Amara Angelica:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Amara D.
Angelica [mailto:amaraa@gmail.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Sunday, October 22, 2006
1:31 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'spike'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> FW: [extropy-chat] The
Drake Equation and Spatial Proximity</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Amara D.
Angelica [mailto:amaraa@gmail.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, October 21, 2006
3:47 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> '<st1:PersonName w:st="on">ExI
chat list</st1:PersonName>'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [extropy-chat] The
Drake Equation and Spatial Proximity</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>AB: 210 extrasolar planets have been found, according to the The
Extrasolar Planets Encyclopaedia, <a href="http://exoplanet.eu/catalog.php"><font
color=black><span style='color:black'>http://exoplanet.eu/catalog.php</span></font></a>; or
197, according to JPL, <a
href="http://planetquest1.jpl.nasa.gov/atlas/atlas_index.cfm"><font
color=black><span style='color:black'>http://planetquest1.jpl.nasa.gov/atlas/atlas_index.cfm</span></font></a>,
which links to a database that may be useful, and could overlayed on <a
href="http://www.anzwers.org/free/universe/w50lys.gif"><font color=black><span
style='color:black'>www.anzwers.org/free/universe/w50lys.gif</span></font></a> and
other maps at <a href="http://www.anzwers.org/free/universe"><font color=black><span
style='color:black'>http://www.anzwers.org/free/universe</span></font></a>. PlanetQuest
is developing a "star catalog" that may also be useful when
available, <a href="http://www.planetquest.org"><font color=black><span
style='color:black'>http://www.planetquest.org</span></font></a>. Also see
"Detecting New Planets" <a
href="http://www.seti.org/site/pp.asp?c=ktJ2J9MMIsE&b=179076"><font
color=black><span style='color:black'>http://www.seti.org/site/pp.asp?c=ktJ2J9MMIsE&b=179076</span></font></a>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>In "SPECTRAL EVOLUTION OF AN EARTH-LIKE PLANET," <a
href="http://arxiv.org/ftp/astro-ph/papers/0609/0609398.pdf"><font color=black><span
style='color:black'>http://arxiv.org/ftp/astro-ph/papers/0609/0609398.pdf</span></font></a>, Harvard
and JPL astronomers report that they have established a model for the Earth's
atmosphere and detectable biomarkers over the lifetime of the Earth.
"Observations of these features on an exoplanet should be able to place an
Earth-like planet with regard to its evolution. Knowledge of those features
will help to optimize the design of proposed instruments to search for
Earth-like planets. If an exoplanet is found with a corresponding spectrum, we
will have good evidence for characterizing its evolutionary state, its
habitability, and the degree to which it shows signs of life." <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Regarding the Fermi paradox, <a
href="http://www.seti.org/site/pp.asp?c=ktJ2J9MMIsE&b=179077"><font
color=black><span style='color:black'>http://www.seti.org/site/pp.asp?c=ktJ2J9MMIsE&b=179077</span></font></a> and
<a href="http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_thursday_060720.html"><font
color=black><span style='color:black'>http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_thursday_060720.html</span></font></a> have
interesting discussions. I don't understand why it's a paradox if we've only
explored a miniscule portion of the search space (number of stars, percentage
of time they are observed, EIRP range, frequency range, signal modulation
schemes, etc.), based on an unpublished study of search space I did a few
years ago. Comments?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Robert: regarding </span></font>invisibility of
post-Singularity civilizations (I assume this refers to the transition
from RF to more efficient communication schemes?), this would not, of course,
apply to communications with other solar systems or galaxies, which could be
significant. It might be interesting to look at the
Harvard/JPL data and think about what spectral
characteristics might be specific to post-Singularity civilizations,
including post-ecophage civilizations. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I am currently researching information on active SETI (<a
href="http://www.seti.org/site/pp.asp?c=ktJ2J9MMIsE&b=179532"><font
color=black><span style='color:black'>http://www.seti.org/site/pp.asp?c=ktJ2J9MMIsE&b=179532</span></font></a>) and
welcome any correspondence on this subject. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>From: <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org</st1:PersonName> [mailto:<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org</st1:PersonName>] On Behalf Of
Robert Bradbury<br>
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 12:31 PM<br>
To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">ExI chat list</st1:PersonName><br>
Subject: Re: [extropy-chat] The Drake Equation and Spatial Proximity<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmailquote><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On 10/21/06, A B <<a
href="mailto:austriaaugust@yahoo.com"><font color=black><span style='color:
black'>austriaaugust@yahoo.com</span></font></a>> wrote:</span></font></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>It would be interesting to display the Drake calculation (or a more
"updated" variation of it) as a 3-D, statistical (even) distribution
overlaying the Milky Way galaxy. It could provide a "probable" range
of physical distances between "intelligent civilizations" - and might
help with some insights into the Fermi Paradox ... ? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
This is only interesting if you scale the stars (and civilizations) at their
level of development (incapable of supporting life, capable of supporting
simple life, capable of supporting complex life, capable of supporting
technological civilizations, post-singularity civilizations). The density
of those various star states varies with general galactic position (and
probably "local" galactic quadrant history). <br>
<br>
Of course its kind of hard to display the post-singularity civilizations --
because we _can't_ see them!<br>
<br>
Robert<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</body>
</html>