<br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 10/26/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">The Avantguardian</b> <<a href="mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org">email@example.com</a>> wrote:</span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
One of the "possibilities" that I think you guys seem to be missing is that it may turn out that harnessing dark/vacuum/zero-point energy may actually be easier than building a Dyson sphere.</blockquote><div><br>
I very much doubt it. At least while I'm on watch, I try to keep a "no magic physics" zone in effect. And other than when we let Anders get carried away from time to time its also a "no magic engineering" zone. *When* you show me that it exists *and* there is a way to tap it *and* you get a significant number of other physicists and engineers to agree with you -- you can bring it to the table. Until then it belongs in the nice but no cigar idea pail with Star Trek transporters and Star Gate SG-1 worm holes (IMO).
<br><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Robert, I don't understand your comment about Lineweaver and earth lagging behind "70% of solar systems". What is the rationale of that?
</blockquote><div><br>Lineweaver and his graduate students over the last several years have published a set of papers which argue that of the "Earth's" in our galaxy (i.e. those solar systems which should have Earth like conditions allowing for a similar evolution of life) that 70% of them are *older* than ours is (implying that their civilizations stand a significant chance of being much further along than ours is). Since many of those older civilizations may be up to several billion years older than ours they would long ago have gone past any Singularity transition from pre-KT-I to full or somewhat post KT-II .
<br><br>Of course this make the Fermi Paradox much worse until you realize that there is no point to transitioning from a classical KT-II to a classical KT-III level. If you want to evolve along the intelligence vector you have to bring the galaxy's matter and energy into the smallest volume you can manage (before gravity crunches it and makes harvesting any information a wee bit difficult). If you want to evolve along the long term survival vector you migrate out of the galaxy entirely into intergalactic space. Or you can play around in your MBrain virtual universe and bud off mini-MBrains when close encounters with uncolonized star systems (every few million years?) allow for cheap duplication of ones collective mindset .
<br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> The big bang, if it actually happened and relativity is true, would be the only time that was the same time for everybody (fair start scenario).
</blockquote><div><br>Yes, but the evolutionary vectors are *very* much different and *very* much determined by the role of the dice. The element mix of our solar system (which plays a key role in how bacteria and subsequent life evolves) was strongly influenced by one or several nearby supernovas shortly before the formation of our solar nebula (something like 5-6 billion years ago). "Rare Earth" goes into a lot of the conditions that had to be "just right" to get us here -- but "Probability One" offsets most of those with the argument that if *we* are here then others should be as well. The current exoplanet trends seem to be providing a lot of evidence that there are lots of planets and that some solar systems are "strange" but not that systems like our own are highly improbable.
<br></div><br>With respect to Eugen's comments on converting this system to a Dyson Shell and subsequently a MBrain there are lots of paths. The first table in the paper I did for OSETI III  gives you some idea of the various possibilities. Within this solar system I believe that sometime in the 2030-2040 time frame relatively robust nanotech will enable the disassembly of the asteroid belt and our sun (from an external perspective) will start going dark. Whether we continue the process by going after the outer planets or the inner planets (or both) after that opens up a can-o-worms political discussion. One thing is for sure -- advanced civilizations, if they haven't predicted our development properly (
i.e. we got "lucky"), *will* start to notice us at that point. Whether they will care gets back to the "we don't talk to nematodes, nor do we talk to invertebrates" conversation. Of course, unless they are sitting in the Oort cloud or closer there will not be much they can do to influence things .
<br><br></div>Robert<br><br>1. A post-KT-II civilization would be one which is utilizing manufactured fusion reactors and H/He lifted out of its original sun (or harvested from interstellar gas clouds) to achieve greater than natural star power output energy scales. Such a civilization could build a externally powered MBrain which has somewhat greater thought capacity than "traditional" internally powered MBrains.
<br>2. It is worth noting from an astronomical perspective that some think that "Blue straggler" stars are the result of stellar collisions. These are relatively rare which gives an indication of how infrequently star systems might pass close enough to allow a KT-II superintelligence replication party. It isn't that one *can't* replicate across light years of distance -- its just that the energy and matter costs of doing so are relatively high if you want to take a significant fraction of ones collective knowledge and history along with you.
<br>3. <a href="http://http://www.aeiveos.com:8080/%7Ebradbury/MatrioshkaBrains/OSETI3/4273-32.html">http://www.aeiveos.com:8080/~bradbury/MatrioshkaBrains/OSETI3/4273-32.html</a><br>4. If you play with the numbers from the Exponential Self-Disassembly and Disassembly with 10E26 W columns of the table it becomes fairly obvious that disassembly of everything but the four gas giants can be accomplished in a matter of months.