I don't want to turn this into a war debate. I just want to point out
something. You focus a lot on "promises kept" yet you fail to acknowledge the fact that prior to the invasion, Saddam broke the promises he made at the end of t he first gulf war many many times. It was constant. He refused to comply with 12 UN resolutions and even if he failed to have any WMDs on site, he pranced about as if they were actually there and in my book, a stranger with a toy gun that LOOKS real is just as much of a threat as a person with a real gun. Had he kept his promises, we never would have gone over there in the first place. </div>
Bush may have botched the job. .Or he may have made a bad decision. But
that is not the same as what you are declaring. You are making it sound as if we just decided to pick a fight with Saddam at random when in fact he was intentionally taunting the US and he just finally taunted the wrong guy.<BR></div>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 8px; MARGIN-LEFT: 8px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid" webmail="1">-------- Original Message --------<BR>Subject: Re: [extropy-chat] Taking a stand<BR>From: "Brett Paatsch" <email@example.com><BR>Date: Sun, April 22, 2007 8:53 pm<BR>To: <firstname.lastname@example.org><BR><BR><PRE>John Grigg wrote:
> Attempting to impeach the current president is not a realistic plan
Why would you think that?
If the founding fathers can found a republic with a constitution that
includes impeachment proceedings in a time when they are fighting
the British and in Lincolns time the country can go to an election
during a civil war, what makes this generation of Americans, so inept?
The only answer I can come up with is that the current crop of voting
age American's are more stupid and selfish than their predecessors.
Mathematically, we outsiders are obliged to be anti-American by a
simple look at the numbers. 53 % supported Bush after the illegal
invasion of Iraq.
There has to be some sort of bystander calculus going on. You guys
must think that individually you can't do anything because you are
just individuals and that individually you won't be held accountable
by the rest of the world. What you don't seem to be rational enough
to grasp is that not only the world is turning on you but sooner or
later by setting aside the rule of law and allowing promises to be
conspicuously broken you are ensuring that you will turn on each
You are raising children, some of you, in environments where the
message you will be teaching them in your culture is keep your
heads down and if your break your word thats fine so long as
your brazen or strong it doesn't even matter if you get caught.
Its like you have a collective Easter Island style deathwish.
Any society or group of people that wants or needs to live
together with children and people of less than the highest
judgement (ie. most ordinary people) and character having
freedom needs to have or to discover the simple economic
efficiency of the social contract.
In simplicity, promises made cannot be allowed to go broken
lest no promises be kept. Even three anarchists would agree
in a resource restricted envirnoment/world that it makes sense
for any two of them to disallow betrayal of the others by any
one of them. The principle of keeping solemn promises and
upholding contracts is absolutely fundamental to freedom in
any form of group where the individuals are not perfect.
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