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It was called to my attention that there have been some problems on the
list. Since I am not a moderator I have not followed the thread on
this and since I have been travelling for several weeks, I did not know
there was a problem. But because we share this list as a venue to discuss
and challenge ideas, I think that we all need to take a look at
this:<br><br>
<br>
<pre>From: Eugen Leitl
<<a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat">
eugen at leitl.org</a>>
>> On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 01:53:25PM +1000, Brett Paatsch wrote:
</i>> >John Grigg wrote:
</i>> >
</i>> > Attempting to impeach the current president is not a
realistic plan
</i>> >
</i>> > Why would you think that?
</i>>
> Folks, killthread. This is completely off-topic for the list.
</i>Brett responded:
<dl>
<dd>"Eugen, just so you and I are absolutely clear. If you kill this
thread, or call for it to be killed again. If your are that censorious, I
will remember it and hold it against you whilst you and I live. I would
oppose your reanimation. I will regard you as in the aggregate an
entropic vector.
<dd>I am willing to be censored off the list, it is a private list after
all, but actions (like censorship) are facts that shape reactions. Being
a person in a world of persons, I take things personally. Fair warning.
<dd>If I am censored off the list I would take that as diagnostic of the
<dd>degeneration of the list. It is one thing to take issue with a
persons
<dd>arguments and say so. It is another to stop other people from
hearing
<dd>those arguments and expressing their reactions which may include
<dd>opposition to them. I regard censorship as a form of killing - as do
<dd>you by the use of your word killthread.
<dd>You are yourself a transient information thread that the universe
<dd>has yet to rule on."
</pre>
</dl>Like Brett I do not like being censored. But there is a
difference between being censored and being sensible. The extropy
list does have rules and guidelines and list members are required to
follow them in order to post on this list. Whether or not Brett's
thread is on topic for this list is one issue at stake. Now, there
are many variables involved that can add one way or another such as a
post may be a topic the list members want to engage in but it is not a
transhumanist topic per se. Or, it can be a topic that is curious
for list members but the way in which it is presented to the list, or the
language used or implications of the meaning of the posts can cause a
moderator to request that the thread be put to rest. These
variables are important to pay attention to.<br><br>
Further, and not totally unrelated, I was censored from the Cryonics list
when I was being an activist to help a fellow cryonicist. Now this
was truly strange and frankly made me think much less of cryonicists than
I had prior. But I also understood that it touched a nerve with
other list members and I did not take it personally, retaliate, or blame
them. I belive that I was in the wrong for not paying attention to
the feelings of other list members. I was too busy to read
responses, and that was also my mistake. I was so driven to do
something worthwhile that it backfired on me. <br><br>
I see what you (Brett) are doing as something different but sharing some
similarities. You posted on a topic that you are passionate
about. The difference with you and me is that you are blaming and
making accusations and insulting list members. I would not do this
because even if people do not agree with me, I do my best to accept the
differences. You are also different than me in the way you handled
this. Instead of approaching the topic from a constructive
inclusive manner, you made assumptions and accusations. This never
sits well with list members.<br><br>
And, finally, I do not like is the content of your (Brett) response to
the list moderator (Eugene) requesting that the thread be killed.
You made a threat and does not sit well with me and I'm sure
others. But putting that aside, what do other list members think of
this thread?<br><br>
Lastly, I do think this is a topic that warrants objective examination
and search for resolution. I invite you to think about
this.<br><br>
In hopes of resolution rather than slamming doors,<br><br>
Natasha<br><br>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<dl>
<dd><font size=2><a href="http://www.natasha.cc/">Natasha
</a><a href="http://www.natasha.cc/">Vita-More</a>
<dd>PhD Candidate,
<a href="http://www.planetary-collegium.net/about/">Planetary Collegium
</a>
<dd>Proactionary Principle Core Group,
<a href="http://www.extropy.org/">Extropy
</a><a href="http://www.extropy.org/">Institute</a>
<dd>Member, <a href="http://www.profuturists.com/">Association of
Professional Futurists</a>
<dd>Founder, <a href="http://www.transhumanist.biz/">Transhumanist Arts
& Culture</a>
<dd>Advisory Committee,
</font><a href="http://www.pietronigro.com/zgac/">Zero Gravity Arts
Consortium <br><br>
</a>
<dd><font face="Times New Roman, Times"><i>If you draw a circle in the
sand and study only what's inside the circle, then that is a
closed-system perspective. If you study what is inside the circle and
everything outside the circle, then that is an open system perspective. -
</i>Buckminster Fuller<br>
<br><br></font>
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