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At 08:41 PM 4/30/2007, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Hi Natasha,<br><br>
I hope you enjoyed your stay in Montreal and that<br>
people where hospitable.</blockquote><br>
Very. It was hard work and challenging, but I was able to
accomplish a lot.<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">I am curious to know why Brett
didn't politely, on<br>
list, ask Eugen why he thought that the thread should<br>
be killed?</blockquote><br>
It appears that his emotions were running on explosive ingredients. Not
everyone can be civil when emotions are out of wack. Killing a
thread is not something that is done easily.<br><br>
Natasha<br><br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Thanks <br>
Anna:)<br><br>
<br><br>
--- Natasha Vita-More <natasha@natasha.cc> wrote:<br><br>
> It was called to my attention that there have been<br>
> some problems on the <br>
> list. Since I am not a moderator I have not<br>
> followed the thread on this <br>
> and since I have been travelling for several weeks,<br>
> I did not know there <br>
> was a problem. But because we share this list as a<br>
> venue to discuss and <br>
> challenge ideas, I think that we all need to take a<br>
> look at this:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> From: Eugen Leitl <br>
><br>
<<<a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat%3Eeugen" eudora="autourl">
http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat>eugen</a>
<br>
> at <br>
> leitl.org><br>
> <br>
> >> On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 01:53:25PM +1000, Brett<br>
> Paatsch wrote:<br>
> > >John Grigg wrote:<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Attempting to impeach the current president is<br>
> not a realistic plan<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Why would you think that?<br>
> ><br>
> > Folks, killthread. This is completely off-topic<br>
> for the list.<br>
> <br>
> Brett responded:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> "Eugen, just so you and I are absolutely clear. If<br>
> you kill this thread, or <br>
> call for it to be killed again. If your are that<br>
> censorious, I will <br>
> remember it and hold it against you whilst you and I<br>
> live. I would oppose <br>
> your reanimation. I will regard you as in the<br>
> aggregate an entropic vector.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> I am willing to be censored off the list, it is a<br>
> private list after all, <br>
> but actions (like censorship) are facts that shape<br>
> reactions. Being a <br>
> person in a world of persons, I take things<br>
> personally. Fair warning.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> If I am censored off the list I would take that as<br>
> diagnostic of the<br>
> <br>
> degeneration of the list. It is one thing to take<br>
> issue with a persons<br>
> <br>
> arguments and say so. It is another to stop other<br>
> people from hearing<br>
> <br>
> those arguments and expressing their reactions which<br>
> may include<br>
> <br>
> opposition to them. I regard censorship as a form of<br>
> killing - as do<br>
> <br>
> you by the use of your word killthread.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> You are yourself a transient information thread that<br>
> the universe<br>
> <br>
> has yet to rule on."<br>
> <br>
> Like Brett I do not like being censored. But there<br>
> is a difference between <br>
> being censored and being sensible. The extropy list<br>
> does have rules and <br>
> guidelines and list members are required to follow<br>
> them in order to post on <br>
> this list. Whether or not Brett's thread is on<br>
> topic for this list is one <br>
> issue at stake. Now, there are many variables<br>
> involved that can add one <br>
> way or another such as a post may be a topic the<br>
> list members want to <br>
> engage in but it is not a transhumanist topic per<br>
> se. Or, it can be a <br>
> topic that is curious for list members but the way<br>
> in which it is presented <br>
> to the list, or the language used or implications of<br>
> the meaning of the <br>
> posts can cause a moderator to request that the<br>
> thread be put to <br>
> rest. These variables are important to pay<br>
> attention to.<br>
> <br>
> Further, and not totally unrelated, I was censored<br>
> from the Cryonics list <br>
> when I was being an activist to help a fellow<br>
> cryonicist. Now this was <br>
> truly strange and frankly made me think much less of<br>
> cryonicists than I had <br>
> prior. But I also understood that it touched a<br>
> nerve with other list <br>
> members and I did not take it personally, retaliate,<br>
> or blame them. I <br>
> belive that I was in the wrong for not paying<br>
> attention to the feelings of <br>
> other list members. I was too busy to read<br>
> responses, and that was also my <br>
> mistake. I was so driven to do something worthwhile<br>
> that it backfired on me.<br>
> <br>
> I see what you (Brett) are doing as something<br>
> different but sharing some <br>
> similarities. You posted on a topic that you are<br>
> passionate about. The <br>
> difference with you and me is that you are blaming<br>
> and making accusations <br>
> and insulting list members. I would not do this<br>
> because even if people do <br>
> not agree with me, I do my best to accept the<br>
> differences. You are also <br>
> different than me in the way you handled this. <br>
> Instead of approaching the <br>
> topic from a constructive inclusive manner, you made<br>
> assumptions and <br>
> accusations. This never sits well with list<br>
> members.<br>
> <br>
> And, finally, I do not like is the content of your<br>
> (Brett) response to the <br>
> list moderator (Eugene) requesting that the thread<br>
> be killed. You made a <br>
> threat and does not sit well with me and I'm sure<br>
> others. But putting that <br>
> aside, what do other list members think of this<br>
> thread?<br>
> <br>
> Lastly, I do think this is a topic that warrants<br>
> objective examination and <br>
> search for resolution. I invite you to think about<br>
> this.<br>
> <br>
> In hopes of resolution rather than slamming doors,<br>
> <br>
> Natasha<br>
> <br>
> <br>
>
<<a href="http://www.natasha.cc/" eudora="autourl">
http://www.natasha.cc/</a>>Natasha<br>
>
<<a href="http://www.natasha.cc/%3EVita-More" eudora="autourl">
http://www.natasha.cc/>Vita-More</a><br>
> PhD Candidate,<br>
>
<<a href="http://www.planetary-collegium.net/about/" eudora="autourl">
http://www.planetary-collegium.net/about/</a>>Planetary<br>
> Collegium<br>
> Proactionary Principle Core Group,<br>
>
<<a href="http://www.extropy.org/%3EExtropy" eudora="autourl">
http://www.extropy.org/>Extropy</a> <br>
>
<<a href="http://www.extropy.org/" eudora="autourl">
http://www.extropy.org/</a>>Institute<br>
> Member,
<<a href="http://www.profuturists.com/%3EAssociation" eudora="autourl">
http://www.profuturists.com/>Association</a> of<br>
> Professional Futurists<br>
> Founder,<br>
>
<<a href="http://www.transhumanist.biz/" eudora="autourl">
http://www.transhumanist.biz/</a>>Transhumanist Arts &<br>
> Culture<br>
> Advisory Committee,<br>
>
<<a href="http://www.pietronigro.com/zgac/%3EZero" eudora="autourl">
http://www.pietronigro.com/zgac/>Zero</a> Gravity Arts <br>
> Consortium<br>
> <br>
> If you draw a circle in the sand and study only<br>
> what's inside the circle, <br>
> then that is a closed-system perspective. If you<br>
> study what is inside the <br>
> circle and everything outside the circle, then that<br>
> is an open system <br>
> perspective. - Buckminster Fuller<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> extropy-chat mailing list<br>
> extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org<br>
><br>
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http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a><br>
> <br><br>
<br><br>
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</blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<dl>
<dd><font size=2><a href="http://www.natasha.cc/">Natasha
</a><a href="http://www.natasha.cc/">Vita-More</a>
<dd>PhD Candidate,
<a href="http://www.planetary-collegium.net/about/">Planetary Collegium
</a>
<dd>Proactionary Principle Core Group,
<a href="http://www.extropy.org/">Extropy
</a><a href="http://www.extropy.org/">Institute</a>
<dd>Member, <a href="http://www.profuturists.com/">Association of
Professional Futurists</a>
<dd>Founder, <a href="http://www.transhumanist.biz/">Transhumanist Arts
& Culture</a>
<dd>Advisory Committee,
</font><a href="http://www.pietronigro.com/zgac/">Zero Gravity Arts
Consortium <br><br>
</a>
<dd><font face="Times New Roman, Times"><i>If you draw a circle in the
sand and study only what's inside the circle, then that is a
closed-system perspective. If you study what is inside the circle and
everything outside the circle, then that is an open system perspective. -
</i>Buckminster Fuller<br>
<br><br></font>
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