<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername"></b> <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat-request@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat-request@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Date: Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 1:18 AM<br>Subject: extropy-chat Digest, Vol 57, Issue 23<br>To: <a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br><br><br>Send extropy-chat mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Groups (hkhenson)<br>
2. Re: Groups (BillK)<br>
3. Re: Energy crisis solution (Lee Corbin)<br>
4. Re: Groups (Lee Corbin)<br>
5. Re: Groups (Lee Corbin)<br>
6. become immortal and *also* get a free t-shirt and game!<br>
(John Grigg)<br>
7. Re: become immortal and *also* get a free t-shirt and game!<br>
(Michael LaTorra)<br>
8. Energy, Fossil Fuels, Global Warming (Stefano Vaj)<br>
9. Re: Energy crisis solution (The Avantguardian)<br>
10. Re: Energy, Fossil Fuels, Global Warming (David C. Harris)<br>
11. "the uncritical inference test" (hkhenson)<br>
12. Re: Energy crisis solution (hkhenson)<br>
13. differential gene expression (hkhenson)<br>
14. A letter to Dobson (<a href="mailto:artillo@comcast.net">artillo@comcast.net</a>)<br>
15. Galaxy map hints at fractal universe (Jef Allbright)<br>
16. Re: Galaxy map hints at fractal universe (Bryan Bishop)<br>
17. Re: Galaxy map hints at fractal universe (scerir)<br>
18. 12 Million Molecules Share 143 Basic Shapes (Jef Allbright)<br>
19. Re: 12 Million Molecules Share 143 Basic Shapes (Mike Dougherty)<br>
20. Re: Galaxy map hints at fractal universe (Lee Corbin)<br>
21. Re: 12 Million Molecules Share 143 Basic Shapes (Lee Corbin)<br>
22. Re: Galaxy map hints at fractal universe (spike)<br>
23. Re: Galaxy map hints at fractal universe (Jef Allbright)<br>
24. [Fwd: Aubrey De Grey sent you a message on Facebook]<br>
(Brent Allsop)<br>
25. [Cog, Context, Empathy] Independent thinkers judge distances<br>
differently than holistic types (Jef Allbright)<br>
26. "Martian Soil Appears Able to Support Life" (Damien Broderick)<br>
27. Pride and/or thinking superior (Anna Taylor)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:04:54 -0700<br>
From: hkhenson <<a href="mailto:hkhenson@rogers.com">hkhenson@rogers.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ExI] Groups<br>
To: ExI chat list <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:1214161665_3753@S3.cableone.net">1214161665_3753@S3.cableone.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed<br>
<br>
At 07:56 AM 6/22/2008, you wrote:<br>
>Lee wrote:<br>
><br>
> > The difficulty is in figuring out what those subtasks actually are.<br>
> ><br>
><br>
>My Response:<br>
><br>
>I wrote two or more years either here or on AGI that projects that are large<br>
>in scope with this many pieces/parts get lost without project plans.<br>
<br>
You are so right. All the project I brought in on time and on budget<br>
had project plans. The ones where there was no project plan, some<br>
came in on time and budget and some didn't.<br>
<br>
>I asked how many people working on AGI or Singularity related project held<br>
>themselves to project plans or had project plans available for viewing, and<br>
>I was thrashed soundly!<br>
<br>
That's amusing, not particularly surprising though.<br>
<br>
>Any business attempting a project of any size has to have a project plan to<br>
>maintain focus and win support from the business who controls the money.<br>
><br>
>They don't always make their milestones or cost projections and the projects<br>
>plans change often as new information is learned.<br>
><br>
>But the project plan is a tool to help them keep focus on what the critical<br>
>path is, determine what the subtasks are and estimate the overall time frame<br>
>and budget for the project.<br>
><br>
>And the project plan is extremely useful for decomposing the main tasks into<br>
>the smaller subtasks that can delegated to volunteers, interns, employees<br>
>with less than total understanding of the overall project architecture.<br>
<br>
This only works when you understand the main task. I think that's<br>
the main problem with AI/AGI, at least I don't think anyone<br>
understands the main task. (If someone does, please respond.) Now<br>
the project of building a brain emulator, that's a project that could<br>
be done because we have examples of them all around. Mainline would<br>
go something like: Understand the natural example in enough detail<br>
to: Make a hardware emulation then: Turn it on. Tune. Enjoy<br>
conversation with your new partner.<br>
<br>
snip<br>
<br>
>I have seen some signs lately that the AGI scene is getting it's act<br>
>together. But still no project plans.<br>
<br>
Speaking of project plan software, is there anything on the market as<br>
good as Lisa Project? That was the best project planning software I<br>
have ever seen. Is there any open source software?<br>
<br>
>My understanding of Extropian goals simply put is to educate and prepare for<br>
>the Singularity and to bring people together to synergistically blend their<br>
>talents and viewpoints to increase the likelihood of a positive outcome and<br>
>somewhat painless transition for mankind.<br>
<br>
Making into this era both personally and as a society are big<br>
goals. The first is exemplified by cryonics. There seems to be a<br>
lack interest in ideas about getting society through the singularity.<br>
<br>
snip<br>
<br>
Keith<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 23:09:34 +0100<br>
From: BillK <<a href="mailto:pharos@gmail.com">pharos@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ExI] Groups<br>
To: "ExI chat list" <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:ee50357e0806221509n243a2af8p512cf2caeb85c813@mail.gmail.com">ee50357e0806221509n243a2af8p512cf2caeb85c813@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 8:04 PM, hkhenson wrote:<br>
<snip><br>
> Speaking of project plan software, is there anything on the market as<br>
> good as Lisa Project? That was the best project planning software I<br>
> have ever seen. Is there any open source software?<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<<a href="http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Software/Project_Management/Open_Source/" target="_blank">http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Software/Project_Management/Open_Source/</a>><br>
<br>
22 entries here.<br>
<br>
<br>
BillK<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:07:37 -0700<br>
From: "Lee Corbin" <<a href="mailto:lcorbin@rawbw.com">lcorbin@rawbw.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ExI] Energy crisis solution<br>
To: "ExI chat list" <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID: <00ca01c8d4de$e76763c0$6401a8c0@homeef7b612677><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";<br>
reply-type=original<br>
<br>
Keith writes<br>
<br>
> In the course of working on another problem, I examined the payback<br>
> time of solar power satellites lifted into space by rockets. To my<br>
> surprise, the energy payback time was only 40 days....<br>
> ...<br>
> the cost of payload to GEO into a range corresponding to dollar a<br>
> gallon gasoline.<br>
><br>
> I gave a talk on this concept at the International Space Development<br>
> Conference and a few days later to some Lockheed planners. It need<br>
> to be verified by other engineers but looks like a way out of the<br>
> world wide energy crisis....<br>
<br>
Well, congratulations on getting them to listen! It's at points like this<br>
where doers become distinguished from (mere) thinkers.<br>
<br>
Lee<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:20:09 -0700<br>
From: "Lee Corbin" <<a href="mailto:lcorbin@rawbw.com">lcorbin@rawbw.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ExI] Groups<br>
To: "ExI chat list" <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID: <00e501c8d4e0$4f65bed0$6401a8c0@homeef7b612677><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";<br>
reply-type=original<br>
<br>
Gary writes<br>
<br>
> Lee wrote:<br>
><br>
> > The difficulty is in figuring out what those subtasks actually are.<br>
<br>
Nay, 'twas Bryan wrote that.<br>
<br>
> My [Gary Miller's] Response:<br>
><br>
> I wrote two or more years either here or on AGI that projects that are large<br>
> in scope with this many pieces/parts get lost without project plans.<br>
><br>
> I asked how many people working on AGI or Singularity related project held<br>
> themselves to project plans or had project plans available for viewing, and<br>
> I was thrashed soundly!<br>
<br>
Keith wrote that he wasn't surprised. I guess we shouldn't be.<br>
<br>
> Any business attempting a project of any size has to have a project plan to<br>
> maintain focus and win support from the business who controls the money.<br>
><br>
> They don't always make their milestones or cost projections and the projects<br>
> plans change often as new information is learned.<br>
<br>
How many people look forward to the relatively boring, often routine,<br>
and completely unglamorous role of project planner? Isn't it a lot more<br>
fun just to conjecture away, or write emails like this one, or fight to<br>
procure a more interesting or heroic-looking role once a project<br>
does start to take shape? All hail the organizers, detail planners, and<br>
those who get balls rolling.<br>
<br>
> But the project plan is a tool to help them keep focus on what the critical<br>
> path is, determine what the subtasks are and estimate the overall time frame<br>
> and budget for the project.<br>
><br>
> And the project plan is extremely useful for decomposing the main tasks into<br>
> the smaller subtasks that can delegated to volunteers, interns, employees<br>
> with less than total understanding of the overall project architecture.<br>
<br>
You are so right. Thanks for spelling it out.<br>
<br>
Lee<br>
<br>
> Sometimes matching key subtasks to people with specific experience/talents<br>
> is crucial.<br>
><br>
> I am sure that the people in ExI and AGI have a broad range of talents that<br>
> could be drawn upon. Those are your resources but before you can harness<br>
> those resources you must understand the talents of your resources in order<br>
> to match them to appropriate subtasks. You also have to then approach each<br>
> one asking them if they would be willing to work on a subtask and how many<br>
> hours they would be able and willing to donate to the completion of that<br>
> subtask...<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:49:59 -0700<br>
From: "Lee Corbin" <<a href="mailto:lcorbin@rawbw.com">lcorbin@rawbw.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ExI] Groups<br>
To: "ExI chat list" <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID: <00e901c8d4e4$78708090$6401a8c0@homeef7b612677><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";<br>
reply-type=original<br>
<br>
Brent wrote<br>
<br>
> Lee Corbin asked:<br>
> > "Why are we so ineffective?" is a very good question. Of course, it<br>
> > should be placed in some perspective such as "compared to what?<br>
> > compared to whom?".<br>
><br>
> Compared to the tens of millions of very well organized people that support<br>
> the LDS prophet, and the billions of well organized catholics that support the<br>
> Pope...and so on.<br>
<br>
That's hardly a fair comparison! I'm sure that Keith meant for his original<br>
question to be taken in the context of groups our size. And I submitted<br>
the most remarkable example of all, the revolutionary groups.<br>
<br>
Political revolution, that is. Lenin's followers were probably inferior in<br>
number to transhumanists (though, of course, energizing people on<br>
huge social issues where vast, vast numbers of people already sense that<br>
the political or economic situation is in urgent need of repair will, duh,<br>
turn out to be relatively easy). But I was thinking of the dedication,<br>
fanaticism, commitment, and hard work often characteristic of the<br>
social revolutionary.<br>
<br>
Now for a religious example, since you mentioned the Mormons and<br>
the Catholics, perhaps the very early followers of Joseph Smith and<br>
Paul make for good paradigms.<br>
<br>
So in one sense, Keith's question was unfair:<br>
<br>
"Why are we so ineffective?" because, as I wrote "compared to what<br>
and compared to whom?" The obvious candidates for comparison<br>
are those groups who're very interested in a subject , have formed<br>
with the help of the internet, an group or "movement" to alter the world<br>
in some way.<br>
<br>
Sadly (for us), we probably aren't really that much different from<br>
those other "movements". Wo ist das Project Plan? (Works even<br>
if you don't know any German.)<br>
<br>
> The greatest idea in the world is completely useless if only one<br>
> person knows about it. Without organization and cooperation<br>
> you have nothing. Traditionally, the most effective organization<br>
> structure has been the hierarchy...<br>
><br>
> But, is a hierarchy really the best way to organize? There are<br>
> so many obvious problems with a hierarchy. Like they are<br>
> terrible bottlenecks since there is no way the guy at the top<br>
> can manage all issues, let alone understand the infinite subtleties<br>
> of all issues.<br>
<br>
Okay, so I worry that you're drifting off into abstractionland and<br>
ideal-compare, instead of grounding your thought a bit, say, with<br>
some historical examples.<br>
<br>
> But, obviously, the way of the hierarchy is starting to<br>
> wain, primarily because of our improving ability to<br>
> communicate.<br>
<br>
I don't see you properly qualifying what you're saying.<br>
Are you trying to suggest that soon police forces will<br>
forego hierarchical structure, and just "self-mobilize"?<br>
The various groups forging ahead with the French<br>
Revolution had no difficulty communicating, but they<br>
weren't really effective until one group or the other<br>
was in a position to tell the others what to do, and<br>
within that one group a single personality was dominant.<br>
<br>
> All transhumanists seem to faithlessly accept the<br>
> current sorry situation where only the popes and<br>
> prophets have any moral or religious influence on<br>
> society, and we have no ability to organize in any<br>
> effective way. As if there is nothing we can do<br>
> to make anything better. But is this truly the case?<br>
<br>
Who knows? Perhaps things can eventually change.<br>
After a decade or two of mostly lip-flapping and<br>
spending the bulk of their time investigating philosophical<br>
foundations, some groups may gradually take on a<br>
different character. (I do not mean to demean the<br>
efforts of the activists among us, but they are few<br>
in number, and, who knows, may not be focused<br>
on exactly the right goals.)<br>
<br>
Lee<br>
<br>
> In fact I think now is the final days of the moral damage these hierarchical religions are doing to society. Once we can know<br>
> concisely and quantitatively what everyone wants, then we will finally have no more need for such hierarchies.<br>
<br>
> Imagine what could happen if we got several thousand Transhumanists to indicate concisely and quantitatively what they believe on<br>
> the above canonized topics. Then imagine the herds attempting to keep up by attempting to go viral, and by creating their own<br>
> camps to defend what the popes and prophets are teaching against what is so obviously true and rational. Certainly, as the popes<br>
> and prophets see this ability to communicate taking away their moral power, as they watch the members in their hierarchies start<br>
> to diminish, they will be tempted to advise their flocks to not participate right? But of course, this is precisely what we want.<br>
> Any such evil or refusal to 'play' with everyone together should have no moral influence over society.<br>
<br>
> And the majority of sheepish people, the ones giving all the power to the popes and prophets will obviously not be interested in<br>
> playing right? They don't want to have to think about things, they just want to "follow the prophet". This is why so many<br>
> sheepish people haven't even thought about the above canonized isseus. And this is what is killing us, morally, today. But, in<br>
> todays dynamic, intelligent, and informed world, don't you think this will tend to lead to their demise?<br>
<br>
> If you ask me, the next big thing in the world is not going to be just technological. It is going to finally be using these<br>
> communication technologies to do something powerfully social. In fact you can see this exploding, right now, before our eyes.<br>
> The primary enabling technology will finally be something that enables the masses to communicate, concisely and quantitatively,<br>
> and in real time, precisely what it is they all want, value, and believe.<br>
<br>
> And once you have that, and can apply such to reputations in quantitative ways, then suddenly you don't need any more hierarchical<br>
> police states and restricting laws. All you have to do is set up reputation systems, where the masses can efficiently, concisely<br>
> and quantitatively communicate the reputation of everything, in real time, and then suddenly it becomes possible to simply ignore<br>
> all the spam and scam...<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 22:05:08 -0700<br>
From: "John Grigg" <<a href="mailto:possiblepaths2050@gmail.com">possiblepaths2050@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: [ExI] become immortal and *also* get a free t-shirt and game!<br>
To: "ExI chat list" <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:2d6187670806222205u68c5f44aw7b54a7da91533d68@mail.gmail.com">2d6187670806222205u68c5f44aw7b54a7da91533d68@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
I enjoyed the playful invitation to "become immortal" and thought<br>
their offer was a cool one.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.immortaleyesgames.com/winningmoves/ieg/immortals.asp" target="_blank">http://www.immortaleyesgames.com/winningmoves/ieg/immortals.asp</a><br>
<br>
John Grigg : )<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 7<br>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:37:15 -0600<br>
From: "Michael LaTorra" <<a href="mailto:mlatorra@gmail.com">mlatorra@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ExI] become immortal and *also* get a free t-shirt and<br>
game!<br>
To: "ExI chat list" <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:9ff585550806231037s46de540atbfe0b5dd1781f87e@mail.gmail.com">9ff585550806231037s46de540atbfe0b5dd1781f87e@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
That offer makes me think that a second t-shirt offer will become<br>
inevitable. It will read:<br>
<br>
"I became immortal and all I got was this lousy t-shirt"<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Mike<br>
<br>
On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 11:05 PM, John Grigg <<a href="mailto:possiblepaths2050@gmail.com">possiblepaths2050@gmail.com</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> I enjoyed the playful invitation to "become immortal" and thought<br>
> their offer was a cool one.<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://www.immortaleyesgames.com/winningmoves/ieg/immortals.asp" target="_blank">http://www.immortaleyesgames.com/winningmoves/ieg/immortals.asp</a><br>
><br>
> John Grigg : )<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> extropy-chat mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat" target="_blank">http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a><br>
><br>
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<br>
Message: 8<br>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:29:51 +0200<br>
From: "Stefano Vaj" <<a href="mailto:stefano.vaj@gmail.com">stefano.vaj@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: [ExI] Energy, Fossil Fuels, Global Warming<br>
To: "World Transhumanist Association Discussion List"<br>
<<a href="mailto:wta-talk@transhumanism.org">wta-talk@transhumanism.org</a>>, "ExI chat list"<br>
<<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:580930c20806230629k55225a9eu5157cc56a475a3d2@mail.gmail.com">580930c20806230629k55225a9eu5157cc56a475a3d2@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/20/mackay_on_carbon_free_uk/" target="_blank">http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/20/mackay_on_carbon_free_uk/</a><br>
<br>
Too long to be pasted on the lists, but it contains long and<br>
interesting excerpts and plenty of data from what appears a very<br>
serious and demistifying study on the intricacies of the subjects<br>
above. It may not change one's stance on them, but at least it helps<br>
one to base it on more substantial and quantitative arguments than it<br>
is often the case.<br>
<br>
Stefano Vaj<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 9<br>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:31:39 -0700 (PDT)<br>
From: The Avantguardian <<a href="mailto:avantguardian2020@yahoo.com">avantguardian2020@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ExI] Energy crisis solution<br>
To: ExI chat list <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:131192.39153.qm@web65416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com">131192.39153.qm@web65416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1<br>
<br>
<br>
--- hkhenson <<a href="mailto:hkhenson@rogers.com">hkhenson@rogers.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> I gave a talk on this concept at the International Space Development<br>
> Conference and a few days later to some Lockheed planners. It need<br>
> to be verified by other engineers but looks like a way out of the<br>
> world wide energy crisis. Done as a Manhattan type program it might<br>
> be constructing new capacity at 500 GW/year inside an 8 year period<br>
> at a cost in the same range as the Iraq War.<br>
<br>
Given McCain's sudden shift in rhetoric toward an appeal to America's<br>
creativity instead of sheer coercive force with regards to the energy crisis,<br>
it would appear you had a net positive effect, Keith.<br>
<br>
Stuart LaForge<br>
alt email: stuart"AT"<a href="http://ucla.edu" target="_blank">ucla.edu</a><br>
<br>
"In ancient times they had no statistics so that they had to fall back on lies."- Stephen Leacock<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 10<br>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:11:40 -0700<br>
From: "David C. Harris" <<a href="mailto:dharris234@mindspring.com">dharris234@mindspring.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ExI] Energy, Fossil Fuels, Global Warming<br>
To: ExI chat list <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:48602DAC.2040207@mindspring.com">48602DAC.2040207@mindspring.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<br>
<br>
Stefano Vaj wrote:<br>
> <a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/20/mackay_on_carbon_free_uk/" target="_blank">http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/20/mackay_on_carbon_free_uk/</a><br>
><br>
> Too long to be pasted on the lists, but it contains long and<br>
> interesting excerpts and plenty of data from what appears a very<br>
> serious and demistifying study on the intricacies of the subjects<br>
> above. It may not change one's stance on them, but at least it helps<br>
> one to base it on more substantial and quantitative arguments than it<br>
> is often the case.<br>
><br>
><br>
Excellent! This looks (from a quick scanning) like a comparison of<br>
alternatives in the same units that I've sought for a long time. Now if<br>
the discussions of alternatives just were done for the United States or<br>
even the world. Maybe someone can expand the book, building on his<br>
universally true physics calculations. Everyone can use the guides to<br>
making the calculations that he includes.<br>
<br>
- David<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 11<br>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:51:34 -0700<br>
From: hkhenson <<a href="mailto:hkhenson@rogers.com">hkhenson@rogers.com</a>><br>
Subject: [ExI] "the uncritical inference test"<br>
To: ExI chat list <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:1214265267_851@s1.cableone.net">1214265267_851@s1.cableone.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed<br>
<br>
<br>
I was dumping old paper files today and found this as hard copy.<br>
<br>
Don't know how long ago someone mentioned it on this list, but it's<br>
worth putting the phrase in Google and reading a site or two, perhaps<br>
even taking the test.<br>
<br>
Keith<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 12<br>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:35:06 -0700<br>
From: hkhenson <<a href="mailto:hkhenson@rogers.com">hkhenson@rogers.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ExI] Energy crisis solution<br>
To: ExI chat list <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:1214271479_1252@S4.cableone.net">1214271479_1252@S4.cableone.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed<br>
<br>
At 03:31 PM 6/23/2008, Stuart LaForge wrote:<br>
<br>
>--- hkhenson <<a href="mailto:hkhenson@rogers.com">hkhenson@rogers.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> > I gave a talk on this concept at the International Space Development<br>
> > Conference and a few days later to some Lockheed planners. It need<br>
> > to be verified by other engineers but looks like a way out of the<br>
> > world wide energy crisis. Done as a Manhattan type program it might<br>
> > be constructing new capacity at 500 GW/year inside an 8 year period<br>
> > at a cost in the same range as the Iraq War.<br>
><br>
>Given McCain's sudden shift in rhetoric toward an appeal to America's<br>
>creativity instead of sheer coercive force with regards to the energy crisis,<br>
>it would appear you had a net positive effect, Keith.<br>
<br>
I *really* doubt it. The problem is getting any attention on ideas<br>
the come up from "the bottom." The better way to do power sats is<br>
with a space elevator. To get there, however, needs attention on nanotubes.<br>
<br>
I have tried for some time to get someone to take up a research<br>
project to make carbon nanotubes by catalytic dehydration of tri<br>
hydroxy benzine with a rotating enzyme. An alternate method involves<br>
using liquid iron as a carbon solvent. No luck, and it's not for a<br>
lack of trying to reach someone who talks to Al Gore or someone of that ilk.<br>
<br>
It is easy to see why. Even at my exceedingly low level I frequently<br>
get presented with ideas that have not been thought out or just plain<br>
violate the laws of chemistry and physics.<br>
<br>
Keith<br>
<br>
PS. McCaine's $300 million proposal isn't likely to be collected.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 13<br>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:03:39 -0700<br>
From: hkhenson <<a href="mailto:hkhenson@rogers.com">hkhenson@rogers.com</a>><br>
Subject: [ExI] differential gene expression<br>
To: ExI chat list <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:1214280391_423@s2.cableone.net">1214280391_423@s2.cableone.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed<br>
<br>
<br>
From The Times<br>
<br>
June 20, 2008<br>
<br>
Scientists say genetic variations show that men think differently<br>
<br>
Sexes preprogrammed with different skills<br>
<br>
Mark Henderson, Science Editor<br>
<br>
Women and men may genuinely think in different ways, according to<br>
research that has found subtle genetic variations between their brains.<br>
<br>
Hundreds of genes that are switched on and off differently in the male<br>
and female brain have been identified, suggesting that many patterns of<br>
behaviour regarded widely as typical of each sex could be founded on<br>
nature as well as nurture.<br>
<br>
Dozens of mental traits and skills are said to differ between men and<br>
women. They include empathy, aggression, risk-taking, navigation and the<br>
qualities that are valued most in a sexual partner.<br>
<br>
The existence of such differences is now widely accepted, but natural<br>
and social scientists have long disagreed about the extent to which they<br>
are rooted in our underlying biology, or are learnt through male and<br>
female social roles. Women are generally more accomplished than men at<br>
empathising with other people, and usually score as more compassionate<br>
on standard personality tests.<br>
<br>
Men are more prone to aggression and risk-taking behaviour, and tend to<br>
be proficient at understanding and devising systems, from car engines to<br>
the offside law.<br>
<br>
While there are no sex differences in general intelligence, women tend<br>
to have stronger visual memories, while men are more proficient at<br>
visualising objects when rotated in space. It has been suggested that<br>
this may reflect the way most men like to navigate by reading maps,<br>
while many women prefer to remember landmarks.<br>
<br>
Such observations have led Professor Simon Baron-Cohen, of the<br>
University of Cambridge, to suggest the existence of "empathising-type"<br>
and "systemising-type" brains, the first of which is more common among<br>
men and the second among women. Professor Baron-Cohen said: "This is a<br>
very original study, testing which genes are expressed differently in<br>
males and females across different primate species. It confirms the<br>
supposition that genetic sex differences are expressed not just in the<br>
secondary sexual characteristics in the body, but in the brain.<br>
<br>
"Finding genes that are conserved across species points to the evolution<br>
of these genetic sex differences, and finding them in the brain suggests<br>
that they may in part influence the way the mind works, and in part<br>
influence our behaviour."<br>
<br>
Men and women also differ in their approach to finding sexual partners.<br>
Men generally place a higher value on youth and good looks, while women<br>
are often more attracted by status.<br>
<br>
The new study, led by Elena Jazin, of the University of Uppsala in<br>
Sweden, does not directly prove that any of these traits is related to<br>
differences in gene activity, but it shows a contrasting genetic<br>
architecture of male and female brains that could plausibly contribute.<br>
<br>
While the two sexes have the same basic genes, many of these are more<br>
active in the brains of only one sex. These gender-specific patterns of<br>
gene expression could affect many aspects of behaviour, the researchers<br>
said.<br>
<br>
"The obvious question to follow is whether or not these signatures of<br>
sex in the brain have physiological significance for brain physiology<br>
and/or behaviour," they wrote in the journal Public Library of Science<br>
Genetics.<br>
<br>
"Our results suggest that variation in expression of genes in the brain<br>
may be an important component of behavioural variation within as well as<br>
between species." The differences could also explain sex variations in<br>
mental health and neurological diseases: women, for instance, are more<br>
at risk of depression and Alzheimer's.<br>
<br>
"Knowledge about gender differences is important for many reasons," Dr<br>
Jazin said. "For example, this information may be used in the future to<br>
calculate medical dosages, as well as for other treatments of diseases<br>
or damage to the brain."The scientists said that their work needed to be<br>
followed up to examine whether any human behavioural or health<br>
differences were related to the sex-specific gene expression profiles.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 14<br>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:05:36 +0000<br>
From: <a href="mailto:artillo@comcast.net">artillo@comcast.net</a><br>
Subject: [ExI] A letter to Dobson<br>
To: "ExI chat list" <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:062420081805.15755.4861376F0008C0F100003D8B2205886442010404079B9D0E@comcast.net">062420081805.15755.4861376F0008C0F100003D8B2205886442010404079B9D0E@comcast.net</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I thought I'd share a little email I wrote to James Dobson about his recent comments on one of Obama's prerecorded speeches. I wonder if it will even reach him directly (I had to go through his Focus on Family website which doesn't list any direct email addresses). My bet is that it will be like pissing in the wind. If it does actually reach him, I wonder if it will infuriate him, and I wonder if I will even see a response! :D<br>
<br>
Onward!<br>
Artillo<br>
<br>
-------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Dear Mr. Dobson,<br>
<br>
I have a few questions, comments, and criticisms for you regarding your recent reaction published today to some of Senator Obama's comments reviewed from a prerecorded speech.<br>
(reference article <a href="http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20080624/REL.Dobson.Obama/" target="_blank">http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20080624/REL.Dobson.Obama/</a> )<br>
<br>
Do you think that Christians have cornered the market on morality?<br>
<br>
Do you believe that unless a person is Christian, they can't possibly share high moral standards?<br>
<br>
I don't consider myself to be among the "lowest common denominator of morality", in fact, I have very high moral standards compared to most of the people I know, Christians and non-Christians alike.<br>
<br>
Name calling is a VERY low tactic and saying that someone has a "fruitcake interpretation" of the bible is both immature and condescending. It is an attack on someone's character and not an attack on their position, and you should understand that doing such only makes YOU look like the one swinging the low blows.<br>
<br>
Each individual is entitled to their own interpretation of the Bible, and regardless of whether or not you agree with one person's interpretations, it does NOT give you the moral high ground to participate in name calling or disparaging remarks, ESPECIALLY in the public spotlight.<br>
<br>
I think that before you jump up and declare that someone running for political office "...is dragging biblical understanding through the gutter" you need to take a step back and actually listen to what they are saying in the context of their speech. Obama was saying that he aspires to politics of INCLUSION, and simply suggested that if we are to have useful political discourse that ALL opinions on the matter be considered in phrasing of a problem.<br>
<br>
As for your statement, "What he's (Obama) trying to say here is unless everybody agrees, we have no right to fight for what we believe."<br>
<br>
That statement does nothing except deliberately try to put words in someone's mouth, and you need to be called out on it. Perhaps if you stated it as your opinion rather than as a 'fact', you might be a bit less subject to my criticism, but that is not the case.<br>
<br>
If you are going to continue a public discussion on anything relating to politics and religion, I suggest you learn how to parse a proper argument before resorting to ridiculous leaps of logic and substituting your opinions for what you think someone meant instead of understanding exactly what they said and the context in which it was said.<br>
<br>
I don't anticipate a response from you, but I definitely do encourage a well thought out one.<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
<br>
Brian S.<br>
A concerned citizen<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 15<br>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:49:28 -0700<br>
From: "Jef Allbright" <<a href="mailto:jefallbright@gmail.com">jefallbright@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: [ExI] Galaxy map hints at fractal universe<br>
To: "ExI chat list" <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:22360fa10806250949k6f60c18byc2c96054e8456abf@mail.gmail.com">22360fa10806250949k6f60c18byc2c96054e8456abf@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252<br>
<br>
A recent article in New Scientist, with its characteristic mix of<br>
insight and inanity, points to further support for the universal<br>
tendency toward preservation of self-similar structure at all scales.<br>
Meta-interesting as yet another foil for those who prefer the comfort<br>
and imagined simplicity and certainty of closed models of "reality."<br>
<br>
- Jef<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<<a href="http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn14200-galaxy-map-hints-at-fractal-universe.html" target="_blank">http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn14200-galaxy-map-hints-at-fractal-universe.html</a>><br>
Is the matter in the universe arranged in a fractal pattern? A new<br>
study of nearly a million galaxies suggests it is ? though there are<br>
no well-accepted theories to explain why that would be so.<br>
<br>
Cosmologists trying to reconstruct the entire history of the universe<br>
have precious few clues from which to work. One key clue is the<br>
distribution of matter throughout space, which has been sculpted for<br>
nearly 14 billion years by the competing forces of gravity and cosmic<br>
expansion. If there is a pattern in the sky, it encodes the secrets of<br>
the universe.<br>
<br>
A lot is at stake, and the matter distribution has become a source of<br>
impassioned debate between those who say the distribution is smooth<br>
and homogeneous and those who say it is hierarchically structured and<br>
clumpy, like a fractal.<br>
<br>
Nearly all physicists agree that on relatively small scales the<br>
distribution is fractal-like: hundreds of billions of stars group<br>
together to form galaxies, galaxies clump together to form clusters,<br>
and clusters amass into superclusters.<br>
<br>
The point of contention, however, is what happens at even larger<br>
scales. According to most physicists, this Russian doll-style<br>
clustering comes to an end and the universe, on large scales, becomes<br>
homogeneous.<br>
<br>
But a small team of physicists, including Francesco Sylos Labini of<br>
the Enrico Fermi Centre in Rome and Luciano Pietronero of the<br>
University of Rome argue that the data shows the opposite: the<br>
universe continues to look fractal as far out as our telescopes can<br>
see.<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 16<br>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:30:43 -0500<br>
From: Bryan Bishop <<a href="mailto:kanzure@gmail.com">kanzure@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ExI] Galaxy map hints at fractal universe<br>
To: <a href="mailto:jef@jefallbright.net">jef@jefallbright.net</a>, ExI chat list<br>
<<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:ts@meme.com.au">ts@meme.com.au</a><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:200806251230.43182.kanzure@gmail.com">200806251230.43182.kanzure@gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
<br>
On Wednesday 25 June 2008, Jef Allbright wrote:<br>
> But a small team of physicists, including Francesco Sylos Labini of<br>
> the Enrico Fermi Centre in Rome and Luciano Pietronero of the<br>
> University of Rome argue that the data shows the opposite: the<br>
> universe continues to look fractal as far out as our telescopes can<br>
> see.<br>
<br>
I'm wondering what sort of interesting, non-optical but similar<br>
statements can be (validly) constructed on an information theoretic<br>
basis, instead of arguing the lack-of-a-wall. Something more juicy. But<br>
not the typical strain of 'it just goes off to infinity' and leaving it<br>
at that.<br>
<br>
- Bryan<br>
________________________________________<br>
<a href="http://heybryan.org/" target="_blank">http://heybryan.org/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 17<br>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:05:04 +0200<br>
From: "scerir" <<a href="mailto:scerir@libero.it">scerir@libero.it</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ExI] Galaxy map hints at fractal universe<br>
To: <<a href="mailto:jef@jefallbright.net">jef@jefallbright.net</a>>, "ExI chat list"<br>
<<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID: <001d01c8d6ed$ffaa4040$2d074797@archimede><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"<br>
<br>
A recent article in New Scientist, with its characteristic mix of<br>
insight and inanity, points to further support for the universal<br>
tendency toward preservation of self-similar structure at all scales.<br>
- Jef<br>
<br>
<br>
Pietronero has a page here and I think his papers are<br>
also published there.<br>
<a href="http://pil.phys.uniroma1.it/twiki/bin/view/Pil/LucianoPietronero" target="_blank">http://pil.phys.uniroma1.it/twiki/bin/view/Pil/LucianoPietronero</a><br>
<br>
He was a friend of mine, in the very late '60s,<br>
we were interested in Machian universes,<br>
and ... from his photo I realize how old I am now,<br>
sigh.<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 18<br>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:20:20 -0700<br>
From: "Jef Allbright" <<a href="mailto:jef@jefallbright.net">jef@jefallbright.net</a>><br>
Subject: [ExI] 12 Million Molecules Share 143 Basic Shapes<br>
To: "Extropy chat list" <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:f7bfe5740806251020m2be58ba2s55182b506b3bf267@mail.gmail.com">f7bfe5740806251020m2be58ba2s55182b506b3bf267@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252<br>
<br>
Another observation pertinent to competent search of (a far from<br>
random) possibility-space.<br>
<br>
- Jef<br>
<br>
<br>
ScienceDaily (June 23, 2008) ? Chemists in Ohio have discovered that<br>
half of all of the known chemical compounds in the world have an<br>
amazing similarity in sharing only 143 basic molecular shapes.<br>
<br>
That sharply limits the number of molecular building blocks that<br>
chemists often deploy in efforts to develop new drugs and other<br>
products, the researchers say in a study scheduled for the June 20<br>
issue of the bi-weekly ACS' Journal of Organic Chemistry.<br>
<br>
Alan H. Lipkus and colleagues note that researchers have known for<br>
years that certain features of molecules, such as rings of atoms and<br>
the bonds than link them together, appear time after time in hundreds<br>
of life-saving medications, food additives, and other widely used<br>
products.<br>
<br>
Scientists often tend to focus on these well-known types of molecular<br>
scaffolding in their quest to select the most promising rings,<br>
linkers, and other components for building new drugs while overlooking<br>
less familiar structures, the researchers say.<br>
<br>
In the new study, they analyzed the chemical frameworks of more than<br>
24 million organic substances found in the ACS' Chemical Abstracts<br>
Service (CAS) Registry, the world's most comprehensive database of<br>
disclosed molecules. They found that half of the substances could be<br>
described by only 143 basic framework shapes. By paying more attention<br>
to a multitude of other molecular shapes, chemists might discover an<br>
array of useful rings, linkers, and other building blocks for<br>
tomorrow's drugs and other medical, commercial, and industrial<br>
products, the study concluded.<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
<br>
Journal reference:<br>
<br>
Lipkus, Alan H., Yuan, Qiong, Lucas, Karen A., Funk, Susan A.,<br>
Bartelt, William F., Schenck, Roger J., and Trippe, Anthony J.<br>
Structural Diversity of Organic Chemistry. A Scaffold Analysis of the<br>
CAS Registry. J. Org. Chem., 73, 12, 4443 - 4451, 2008 DOI:<br>
10.1021/jo8001276<br>
<br>
Adapted from materials provided by American Chemical Society, via<br>
EurekAlert!, a service of AAAS.<br>
American Chemical Society (2008, June 23). 12 Million Molecules Share<br>
143 Basic Shapes, Researchers Find. ScienceDaily. Retrieved June 24,<br>
2008, from <a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080623093425.htm" target="_blank">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080623093425.htm</a><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 19<br>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:36:11 -0400<br>
From: "Mike Dougherty" <<a href="mailto:msd001@gmail.com">msd001@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ExI] 12 Million Molecules Share 143 Basic Shapes<br>
To: "ExI chat list" <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:62c14240806251636p294f7f47q568f626cc9351160@mail.gmail.com">62c14240806251636p294f7f47q568f626cc9351160@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 1:20 PM, Jef Allbright <<a href="mailto:jef@jefallbright.net">jef@jefallbright.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Another observation pertinent to competent search of (a far from<br>
> random) possibility-space.<br>
><br>
<br>
Is that distribution due to some physical maxima of stable design? Would<br>
looking outside those 143 shapes and leaving the top of the bell curve<br>
reduce the likelihood of finding useful molecules? Or is the idea that the<br>
more rare molecules will be substantially more useful to make it worth the<br>
effort?<br>
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Message: 20<br>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:34:35 -0700<br>
From: "Lee Corbin" <<a href="mailto:lcorbin@rawbw.com">lcorbin@rawbw.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ExI] Galaxy map hints at fractal universe<br>
To: "ExI chat list" <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID: <01ad01c8d724$fa4305b0$6401a8c0@homeef7b612677><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";<br>
reply-type=original<br>
<br>
Bryan writes<br>
<br>
> On Wednesday 25 June 2008, Jef Allbright wrote:<br>
>> But a small team of physicists, including Francesco Sylos Labini of<br>
>> the Enrico Fermi Centre in Rome and Luciano Pietronero of the<br>
>> University of Rome argue that the data shows the opposite: the<br>
>> universe continues to look fractal as far out as our telescopes can<br>
>> see.<br>
><br>
> I'm wondering what sort of interesting, non-optical but similar<br>
> statements can be (validly) constructed on an information theoretic<br>
> basis, instead of arguing the lack-of-a-wall. Something more juicy.<br>
<br>
Yes, either way, we want an explanation. We do have to keep<br>
in mind the discouraging possibility that there *is* no explanation<br>
---just as it is possible that no theories will ever supersede QM<br>
and GR. But we really do want more knowledge of the big picture,<br>
and so long as our culture has any vigor at all, we'll keep looking.<br>
<br>
Lee<br>
<br>
> But not the typical strain of 'it just goes off to infinity' and leaving it<br>
> at that.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 21<br>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:41:25 -0700<br>
From: "Lee Corbin" <<a href="mailto:lcorbin@rawbw.com">lcorbin@rawbw.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ExI] 12 Million Molecules Share 143 Basic Shapes<br>
To: "ExI chat list" <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID: <01ae01c8d725$ae65fb60$6401a8c0@homeef7b612677><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";<br>
reply-type=original<br>
<br>
Mike Dougherty writes<br>
<br>
> Jef wrote:<br>
><br>
> Another observation pertinent to competent search of (a far from<br>
> random) possibility-space.<br>
><br>
> Is that distribution due to some physical maxima of stable design?<br>
<br>
Maybe those are only the less dangerous designs.<br>
<br>
> Would looking outside those 143 shapes and leaving the top of the<br>
> bell curve reduce the likelihood of finding useful molecules? Or is<br>
> the idea that the more rare molecules will be substantially more<br>
> useful to make it worth the effort?<br>
<br>
Perhaps we'll fool around long enough to get an analog to Vonnegut's<br>
ice-nine that reorganizes the topos layer of everything.<br>
<br>
Voila! We have here not only an explanation of the Fermi Paradox,<br>
but an explanation of why just 143 shapes are so prevelant. Universes<br>
that utilized more patterns found some which<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 22<br>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:11:38 -0700<br>
From: "spike" <<a href="mailto:spike66@att.net">spike66@att.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ExI] Galaxy map hints at fractal universe<br>
To: "'ExI chat list'" <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:200806260138.m5Q1cKKX017061@andromeda.ziaspace.com">200806260138.m5Q1cKKX017061@andromeda.ziaspace.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"<br>
<br>
<br>
> [mailto:<a href="mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org</a>] On Behalf Of scerir<br>
><br>
> ... from his photo I realize how old I am now, sigh.<br>
<br>
<br>
There is a bright side to it scerir. At least now we don't need to worry<br>
about dying young.<br>
<br>
spike<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 23<br>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:36:30 -0700<br>
From: "Jef Allbright" <<a href="mailto:jef@jefallbright.net">jef@jefallbright.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ExI] Galaxy map hints at fractal universe<br>
To: "Extropy chat list" <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:f7bfe5740806251836j20ef719al7151d293c5b36111@mail.gmail.com">f7bfe5740806251836j20ef719al7151d293c5b36111@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
For some reason, my email client treated this as an offlist response:<br>
<br>
On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Jef Allbright <<a href="mailto:jef@jefallbright.net">jef@jefallbright.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 10:30 AM, Bryan Bishop <<a href="mailto:kanzure@gmail.com">kanzure@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> I'm wondering what sort of interesting, non-optical but similar<br>
>> statements can be (validly) constructed on an information theoretic<br>
>> basis, instead of arguing the lack-of-a-wall. Something more juicy. But<br>
>> not the typical strain of 'it just goes off to infinity' and leaving it<br>
>> at that.<br>
><br>
> I can't speak to their validity, but a quick search of arXiv reveals these:<br>
><br>
> Stochastic Self-Similar and Fractal Universe<br>
> <<a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0308370" target="_blank">http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0308370</a>><br>
><br>
> Via Aristotle, Leibnitz and Mach to a Fractal D=2 Universe<br>
> <<a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0609432" target="_blank">http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0609432</a>><br>
><br>
> Power-law distributions for the areas of the basins of attraction on a<br>
> potential energy landscape<br>
> <<a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/cond-mat/0509185" target="_blank">http://arxiv.org/abs/cond-mat/0509185</a>><br>
><br>
> - Jef<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 24<br>
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:10:44 -0600<br>
From: Brent Allsop <<a href="mailto:brent.allsop@comcast.net">brent.allsop@comcast.net</a>><br>
Subject: [ExI] [Fwd: Aubrey De Grey sent you a message on Facebook]<br>
To: ExI chat list <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:48643004.7020705@comcast.net">48643004.7020705@comcast.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
<br>
Have you guys seen Aubry needs our help?<br>
<br>
Brent Allsop<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------<br>
Subject: Aubrey De Grey sent you a message on Facebook<br>
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:35:58 -0700<br>
From: Facebook <notification+m-_p~<a href="mailto:u-i@facebookmail.com">u-i@facebookmail.com</a>><br>
Reply-To: noreply <<a href="mailto:noreply@facebookmail.com">noreply@facebookmail.com</a>><br>
To: Brent Allsop <<a href="mailto:brent.allsop@canonizer.com">brent.allsop@canonizer.com</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Aubrey sent you a message.<br>
<br>
--------------------<br>
Subject: PLEASE HELP!! DIGG US ON <a href="http://WIRED.COM" target="_blank">WIRED.COM</a> RIGHT NOW!!!<br>
<br>
Hi all,<br>
<br>
We have great news! Wired just released an article about the Methuselah Foundation and Aging 2008.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2008/06/methuselah" target="_blank">http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2008/06/methuselah</a><br>
<br>
We would love to get your help ensuring that a lot of people see the article today and learn about this effort.<br>
<br>
Here's what we can all do:<br>
<br>
1) Digg the article at <a href="http://www.digg.com" target="_blank">www.digg.com</a>. This is one of the best ways to reach more eyeballs. Registering only takes seconds.<br>
<br>
Click "digg it" at the Wired article page, or go here:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://digg.com/health/The_Fight_to_End_Aging_Gains_Legitimacy_and_Funding" target="_blank">http://digg.com/health/The_Fight_to_End_Aging_Gains_Legitimacy_and_Funding</a><br>
<br>
2) Add a (hopefully positive!) comment about the article at the Digg page.<br>
<br>
3) Give the article a point on <a href="http://www.reddit.com" target="_blank">www.reddit.com</a> by clicking the up-arrow on the Reddit button at the Wired article.. Like Digg, registering for Reddit only takes seconds.<br>
<br>
4) You can also comment at the Wired article page. A lot of comments will help show there's major interest in the science of regenerative medicine, increasing the odds of more coverage in the future.<br>
<br>
Thank you for helping us spread the word!<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Aubrey de Grey<br>
--------------------<br>
<br>
To reply to this message, follow the link below:<br>
<a href="http://www.facebook.com/n/?inbox/readmessage.php&t=1011047526150" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/n/?inbox/readmessage.php&t=1011047526150</a><br>
<br>
___<br>
Want to control which emails you receive from Facebook? Go to:<br>
<a href="http://www.facebook.com/editaccount.php?notifications&md=bXNnO2Zyb209NzA5NzM1MDE0O3Q9MTAxMTA0NzUyNjE1MDt0bz01Nzc3NTYyMjM=" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/editaccount.php?notifications&md=bXNnO2Zyb209NzA5NzM1MDE0O3Q9MTAxMTA0NzUyNjE1MDt0bz01Nzc3NTYyMjM=</a><br>
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<br>
Message: 25<br>
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:04:01 -0700<br>
From: "Jef Allbright" <<a href="mailto:jef@jefallbright.net">jef@jefallbright.net</a>><br>
Subject: [ExI] [Cog, Context, Empathy] Independent thinkers judge<br>
distances differently than holistic types<br>
To: "Extropy chat list" <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:f7bfe5740806261204v75e3f376nc80297e2c9bf3d13@mail.gmail.com">f7bfe5740806261204v75e3f376nc80297e2c9bf3d13@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
Here's a study supporting what may be obvious to some and unreasonable<br>
or even repugnant to others on this list.<br>
<br>
<<a href="http://www.physorg.com/news133618396.html" target="_blank">http://www.physorg.com/news133618396.html</a>><br>
<br>
Every day we're faced with decisions that involve spatial judgments.<br>
Which line should we choose at the supermarket? Which route should we<br>
take to work? A new study in the Journal of Consumer Research shows<br>
that thinking styles affect spatial judgment.<br>
<br>
Authors Aradhna Krishna (University of Michigan), Rongrong Zhou (Hong<br>
Kong University of Science and Technology), and Shi Zhang (UCLA),<br>
designed a series of experiments that tested participants to assess<br>
their thinking styles. The participants, who lived in China, Hong<br>
Kong, and the United States, fell into two categories: independent<br>
thinkers (self-focused) and interdependent (relationship-focused).<br>
<br>
The researchers found significant differences between Western and<br>
Eastern participants. "The independent self-construal is more dominant<br>
in Western cultures, where people believe in the inherent separateness<br>
of distinct persons and view the self as an autonomous, independent<br>
person," write the authors. "The interdependent self-construal is more<br>
dominant in Eastern cultures, where people believe in the<br>
connectedness of human beings to each other and view the self as part<br>
of a larger social group."<br>
<br>
They tested participants' ability to judge spatial distances. One<br>
experiment asked participants to imagine they were going to a football<br>
stadium to buy tickets. They were given a map showing two lines, one<br>
straight and one looped, and to estimate the number of dots in each<br>
line. The study found that independent thinkers are more likely to<br>
misjudge distance when they need to take multiple features into<br>
account (like how winding a road is). Interdependent thinkers are less<br>
likely to make distance errors but more prone to other kinds of<br>
spatial errors (such as when intersecting lines on a map make one side<br>
of the line appear longer than the other).<br>
<br>
"Our data indicate that individuals with an independent (vs.<br>
interdependent) self-construal are more likely to pay attention to<br>
only the focal aspects of stimuli and to ignore the context and<br>
background information in forming spatial judgments, resulting in<br>
biases. In contrast, interdependents are capable of going beyond the<br>
most salient dimension (e.g., direct distance) and incorporating other<br>
information (e.g. line configuration) in their judgments, leading to<br>
greater accuracy in these tasks."<br>
<br>
Next time you pull out a map, remember that your thinking style may<br>
affect your perception.<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 26<br>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:30:20 -0500<br>
From: Damien Broderick <<a href="mailto:thespike@satx.rr.com">thespike@satx.rr.com</a>><br>
Subject: [ExI] "Martian Soil Appears Able to Support Life"<br>
To: "'ExI chat list'" <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:7.0.1.0.2.20080627002944.02582430@satx.rr.com">7.0.1.0.2.20080627002944.02582430@satx.rr.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
"Martian Soil Appears Able to Support Life"<br>
<br>
JILL SERJEANT - Reuters<br>
<br>
<br>
LOS ANGELES -- "Flabbergasted" NASA scientists said on Thursday that<br>
Martian soil appeared to contain the requirements to support life,<br>
although more work would be needed to prove it.<br>
<br>
Scientists working on the Phoenix Mars Lander mission, which has<br>
already found ice on the planet, said preliminary analysis by the<br>
lander's instruments on a sample of soil scooped up by the<br>
spacecraft's robotic arm had shown it to be much more alkaline than expected.<br>
<br>
"We basically have found what appears to be the requirements, the<br>
nutrients, to support life whether past present or future," Sam<br>
Kounaves, the lead investigator for the wet chemistry laboratory on<br>
Phoenix, told journalists.<br>
<br>
"It is the type of soil you would probably have in your back yard,<br>
you know, alkaline. You might be able to grow asparagus in it really<br>
well. ... It is very exciting for us."<br>
<br>
The 1 cubic centimeter (0.06 cubic inch) of soil was taken from about<br>
1 inch below the surface of Mars and had a pH, or alkaline, level of<br>
8 or 9. "We were all flabbergasted at the data we got back," Kounaves said.<br>
<br>
Pressed on whether there was still any doubt that life existed on<br>
Mars in some form, Kounaves said the results were "very preliminary"<br>
and more analysis was needed.<br>
<br>
But he added: "There is nothing about the soil that would preclude<br>
life. In fact, it seems very friendly ... there is nothing about it<br>
that is toxic."<br>
<br>
The $420 million Phoenix lander touched down in the north pole region<br>
of Mars on May 25 after a 10-month journey from Earth. It is the<br>
latest NASA bid to determine whether water -- a crucial ingredient<br>
for life -- ever flowed on the planet and whether life, even in the<br>
form of mere microbes, exists or ever existed there.<br>
<br>
Scientists said last week they had definitive proof that ice was on<br>
the planet after eight dice-sized chunks were seen melting away in a<br>
series of photographs.<br>
<br>
Analysis in the past 24 hours of soil placed in the spacecraft's wet<br>
chemistry laboratory showed it to be less acidic than many scientists<br>
expected. It also contained traces of magnesium, sodium, potassium<br>
and other elements, they said.<br>
<br>
When told the pH levels, one colleague "jumped up and down as if he<br>
had the winning lottery ticket," mission soil analysis specialist<br>
Michael Hecht told a telephone news conference.<br>
<br>
"It is a huge step forward," Hecht said, adding the "wet chemistry"<br>
technique, which involves mixing Martian soil with water brought from<br>
Earth, was aimed at discovering what native Martian microbes might be<br>
able to live, survive and grow in the soil.<br>
<br>
The mission scientists said levels of salt were reasonable and the<br>
calcium levels appeared to be low but they warned that the<br>
composition of the soil could change at deeper levels below the surface.<br>
<br>
They also would not be drawn on what form of life the Martian soil<br>
might have supported.<br>
[]<br>
<br>
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Message: 27<br>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:51:04 -0700 (PDT)<br>
From: Anna Taylor <<a href="mailto:femmechakra@yahoo.ca">femmechakra@yahoo.ca</a>><br>
Subject: [ExI] Pride and/or thinking superior<br>
To: <a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:151860.29618.qm@web30408.mail.mud.yahoo.com">151860.29618.qm@web30408.mail.mud.yahoo.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
Wiki says:<br>
>Pride is an emotion which refers to a strong sense of self-respect, a >refusal to be humiliated as well as joy in the accomplishments of oneself >or a person, group, nation or object that one identifies with, or "to >think of one's self as being better than anyone else"<br>
<br>
How is this possible? If at any moment you think you are better than anyone else it could mean you have a superiority complex. Which is useless. You don't exist unless someone else acknowledges your presence. (Can you hear the tree drop when no one is listening?). Please don't assume anyone is unique. There are way too many species on the planet. One individual is like a fish in the sea, a grain in the sand or a bull in a ring. How can you possibly map it?<br>
<br>
Just curious:)<br>
Anna<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
__________________________________________________________________<br>
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at<br>
<a href="http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com" target="_blank">http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com</a>.<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
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<br>
End of extropy-chat Digest, Vol 57, Issue 23<br>
********************************************<br>
</div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>LIFESPAN PHARMA Inc.<br>Extropian Agroforestry Ventures Inc.<br>306-447-4944<br>701-240-9411<br>Mission: To Preserve, Protect and Enhance Lifespan<br>Plant-based Natural-health Bio-product Bio-pharmaceuticals<br>
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<a href="mailto:extropian.pharmer@gmail.com">extropian.pharmer@gmail.com</a><br><br>Transhumanism ..."The most dangerous idea on earth"<br>-Francis Fukuyama,<br>June 2005