<div dir="ltr">Oh, boy. This is going to be fun. : )<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Frank McElligott <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Frankmac@ripco.com">Frankmac@ripco.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Please look into how Putin came to power before you
think Russia is again becoming a land grabbing dictatorship. It is not true
period.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font></div></div></blockquote><div><br><br>Well, when the various mafias & oligarchs were running rife over the nation it was Putin who appealed to the Russian people as the law and order guy during the presidential elections. And generally order was restored by Putin and his administration.<br>
<br>Regarding Georgia, Russian forces are going to be spending many years "protecting" the various factions there that side with Russia. I do credit Russia with not going for a long-term occupation of the entire nation. Please remember, Georgia is not Iraq. If only it was! lol<br>
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial">They are becoming </font><font size="2" face="Arial">a
superpower in oil and gas. But the army budget gets less than 30 billion dollars
annually. Please all the stuff used in the war in Georgia were very old
and from the it's cold war days.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div></div></blockquote><div><br><br>What will enable Russia at least a temporary restoration of superpower status is the *massive* northern offshore oil deposits within the newly extended Russian coastal territorial boundaries. The wealth gained from this will be tremendous and Putin is already drawing up a big shopping list of how to modernize the Russian armed forces with the money that will be rolling in.<br>
<br>You need to get your facts right. Russia used a number of new elite army divisions to invade Georgia that were especially trained to fight and defeat western grade military forces. The Russians were horrified when Russian hardware and Russian trained Iraqi troops got their asses handed to them in two gulf wars. They are now very focused on developing a military that can successfully contend against NATO level forces. <br>
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial"> Not like America where we have a volunteer
army, RUSSIA has a draft and it's soldiers (all male by the by) earn
almost nothing. Does that say something about American</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"> training and American equipment. Georgia has
the building in Washington DC re-thinking about both our training methods
and our equipment/</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div></div></blockquote><div><br><br>They do *generally* have conscripts who are not very happy to be serving in uniform and are sometimes victims of severe beatings and even rape. But they do have those troops who are there very willingly and are sometimes among their well-funded elite fighting forces. As I said, the Russians are hellbent on improving their military and the standard of living for their troops will have to be one of those things. <br>
<br>I did not quite understand the last sentence in your previous paragraph. I am sure Pentagon planners are carefully going over the details of the Georgia conflict. Georgian command and control was reported to be lacking, for one thing. Interestingly, Israel sent people to Georgia to train their forces and the Israeli's know their business when it comes to orchestrating war. But when Russia asked Israel to withdraw their instructors, they actually did so, which I admit to finding surprising. Ultimately, I don't think Georgia really had a chance but I was surprised at how fast Russia took over the small nation. <br>
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial">1. When you had a problem with your local
government like Burger King did in St. Petersburg you went to the West's
government man to fix it, and it got fixed.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"> The west's man in ST.
Petersburg V. Putin.</font> <br></div></div></blockquote><div><br><br>Isn't this sort of a mark of dictatorship and a poorly functioning democracy? lol<br><br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial">2. Everyone in Russia knew that Yelestin was a
drunk and in the West's pocket, and when he picked Putin to succeed
him it was at the West bidding. They even made a movie</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"> of how he (Yelesin) won the his
last election using Western political methods.</font></div>
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial">3. When Putin came to Power he spent
time in Crawford Texas discussing with George Bush what the WEST(meaning
the US) was expecting of him now that he was our man</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">, Yes he was told what to do and what we would do
when he did it.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font></div></div></blockquote><div><br><br>The problem America has it that we just can't always get other countries to do what we expect of them! dammit!<br><br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial">4. And for the last eight years Russia has used
it's oil revenues to gain not one foot of land from the former
USSR.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font></div></div></blockquote><div><br><br>It takes time to modernize a military... And also remember that with Russia's oil reserves they can intimidate nations like the Ukraine without firing a shot.<br>
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial">5. Russia has democratic elections, more on the up
and up than south America and Africa, just because you don't like there outcome
you can't say the are no valid.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font></div></div></blockquote><div><br><br>Russian journalists and the mass media have been intimidated/muzzled by the government and it is very hard for rival candidates and parties to get out their message. Or for serious criticism of the government to even be made. This obviously effects the whole nature of elections...<br>
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial">6. RUSSIA did not invade Georgia, Georgia moved
first and was victims of a fool for a government. Georgia was warned by Rice if
you invade S.O Russia will attack you BACK</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"> still they invaded anyway
thinking that Russia would not do that and they figured wrong.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div></div></blockquote><div><br><br>Mistakes were certainly made on both sides.<br><br><br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial">7. When asked concerning problems with the EU
about Georgia, Putin replied they will not be a problem for Russia as Russia
supplies 35% of EU's power, and they</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"> the EU will look out for
number one. And they did.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font></div></div></blockquote><div><br><br>Yes, Putin was certainly right about that! And this is another reason the West must become energy reliant. But even if there were no European reliance on Russian oil, I just don't see them getting involved in Russia's "backyard." <br>
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial">8. It is rumored in Russia that Putin has
Billions in Swiss banks, and wants just to get out, for if he did not they
would have rewritten the laws just like New York</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"> is doing for Bloomberg if he
wanted to stay.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Interesting. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would want to go on permanent vacation in some foreign nation and turn his back (in the eyes of his people) on his homeland. Putin can have plenty of relaxation and fun in present-day Russia and that I know of he has no major enemies to seriously worry about, unlike certain past oligarchs who fled their nation.<br>
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial">9. which come back to the final point, without
a strong Russia and a strong China, we would not need that big building in
Washington playing war games.</font> <br></div></div></blockquote><div><br><br>"We need enemies!" Actually, with the war on terrorism, our superpower rivalries may have to take somewhat of a backseat for awhile. But ultimately, the U.S. needs the Pentagon and the military it oversees due to powerful tyrannical nations with designs on us and others. The future unfortunately, will probably have nations who put ugly scars on history in the way Nazi, Germany and Imperial Japan did. <br>
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial">10. We always need to have someone to hate, but the
Russian's are nice people, I been there and married one, so if you need to hate,
pick on China</font></div>
</div></blockquote><div><br><br>The Russians generally *are* nice people. And so are the Chinese of Communist China. But governments and national populations tend to get mired in needs, wants, competitions, goals, plots, hysteria, prejudice, etc., and so mistrust and even cold and hot wars can result. <br>
<br>I do feel China is a far greater challenge for America and the West. Some scholars say Russia is ultimately a nation in steep decline (low birth rate, population shrinking, bad public health profile, long-term and diversified economic growth picture not good- oil will not last forever, etc.) and over the next several generations their power will greatly recede and China will culturally and politically absorb the Russian Far East (without a shooting war). <br>
<br>But one scenario is that due to the new northern offshore oil reserves and the huge boost to the military that will come from it, Russia will explode in a spasm of war against China before it finally permanently fades into the status of a former superpower. <br>
<br>I'm glad you did your part for superpower relations by marrying a Russian. : ) I attended the University of Alaska Anchorage when several hundred Russian students attended there in the cause of getting them business degrees and turning them into good little capitalists. <br>
<br>When the American coeds first saw the Russian female students (a lot of them looked like Victoria's Secret models) it was with great alarm and dislike, but they were soon relieved to learn these foreign women would rarely cross "party lines" when it came to dating. <br>
<br>John Grigg<br><br><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div bgcolor="#ffffff"><div></div><font color="#888888">
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Frank</font></div></font></div>
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