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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Here is the important truth, we are all
people. And we are all complex people who have had varied experiences in our
lives. </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>What makes people identify with a certain
culture is just as complex and varied as our individual lives. We have to be
careful about trying to "figure out large groups of people" based on their
outward appearance,</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2> so that we do not make
generalizations. What makes you pick out a pair of pants? Even if you select a
piece of low key clothing, why do you select low key clothing? That could be
analyzed just as much as the opposite. Why do people choose to be safe or not
color outside of the lines? Everyone's external can be psychoanalyzed in this
way, if you want to. And what do you think the alternative
groups could think of the conservative appearance, they could
judge it as</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2> "normal', the standard quo,
followers, no individuality, the establishment, and no voice. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Certainly some people may identify with a
subculture with the point of trying to say something, maybe it's that they need
more attention and love because they are not getting enough, perhaps there
is something in their life - unseen to us that they are rebelling against,
maybe the mainstream kids picked on them when they were a kid
so they are going all the way in the opposite direction, maybe
their family was that way, but... maybe they are artists, maybe it's an esthetic
preference, or a political statement, maybe they just like being an
individual, there are so many possibilities and </FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2>we can analyze for days. But I don't think we need to, and no matter
how some one cuts their hair, what they are wearing or what music they
listen to, t</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>hat is all very external. What
matters is behavior and trust me, all types of people have both good and
bad behavior. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>All that aside, there is enough real material out
there that we can examine, human rights, pollution, hunger, poverty, and all of
our wonderful extropian dreams for the future. How can we help people, how can
we help the world. And let's not forget, the world is full of people who look so
beautifully different from one another. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><EM></EM></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Gina "Nanogirl" Miller<BR>Nanotechnology Industries<BR><A
href="http://www.nanoindustries.com">http://www.nanoindustries.com</A>
<BR>Personal: <A href="http://www.nanogirl.com">http://www.nanogirl.com</A>
<BR>The health stuff blog: <A
href="http://ginamiller.blogspot.com/">http://ginamiller.blogspot.com/</A>
<BR>Animation Blog: <A
href="http://maxanimation.blogspot.com/">http://maxanimation.blogspot.com/</A>
<BR>Craft blog: <A
href="http://nanogirlblog.blogspot.com/">http://nanogirlblog.blogspot.com/</A>
<BR>Foresight Senior Associate <A
href="http://www.foresight.org">http://www.foresight.org</A> <BR>Email: <A
href="mailto:nanogirl@halcyon.com">nanogirl@halcyon.com</A> <BR>"Nanotechnology:
Solutions for the future."<BR></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=possiblepaths2050@gmail.com
href="mailto:possiblepaths2050@gmail.com">John Grigg</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org
href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">ExI chat list</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 10, 2008 7:20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [ExI] "thoughts to live by"
regarding youth subculture</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Spike wrote:<BR><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN><FONT
size=2>Come now Johnny, I know you personally and I know you are the nicest
guy on ExI-chat. Many women would be thankful to have you and wouldn't
break your heart. Be sure you are looking for them in the right places
pal. Someone out there who knows a single young lady of transhumanist
mindset, do have them contact John Grigg. I can assure them they will
not be disappointed.</FONT></SPAN></FONT><BR>>>><BR><BR>This is very
high praise, indeed! I'm blushing! : ) Thanks,
Spike.<BR><BR>Dagon, your comments and links about the Goth subculture were
fascinating to me. I did not think of Goths as "losers" but
did assume they reveled in a rich but negative fantasy life and were snobbish
& not necessarily the upwardly mobile to the extent you say. I had
the mainstream American public's opinion of Goths (probably coming from the
lyrics and imagery of various bands), rather than having an insider's take on
things. I wonder to what extent European Goth culture differs from the
American? But I would like one day to get an Emo's perspective on this
discussion, considering what you said.<BR><BR>I tend to agree with you that
even the supposedly spoiled (and in some ways they are) youth of the 1st world
have it actually pretty hard. Japanese young people are in my view at
the forefront of this, but all kids in the developed world feel the pressure
to fit in, compete and perform educationally and professionally in a very
competitive society, and yet also have a personal/spiritual/family life that
matters. Some youth have the right combination of nature & nurture
(or at least nature) to succeed in our demanding and high-tech environment,
but there are quite a few who just don't have what it takes to make it and get
their slice of the American Pie.<BR><BR>But I do admit that being a citizen of
the 1st world pressure cooker is *vastly* better than living in a Latin
American, Asian or African ghetto where basic medicine, healthy and plentiful
food, civil liberties, adequate shelter and education are only a dream.
But many living legally in our "wondrous" 1st world still don't have all their
basic living needs met. <BR><BR><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><FONT
size=2><SPAN>Dagon wrote:<BR>Here's how the biggest goth of the known
universe, the inventor of the whole vampire thing turned out: Used to hang
with him in Amsterdam a while:</SPAN></FONT></FONT><BR>>>><BR><BR>How
did your friend wind up inventing the whole Goth/vampire thing? He
sounds like quite an individual! <BR><BR>you wrote:<BR><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN>He had girls so pretty, so kinky, so
amazingly attractive you'd swallow your words in a second. And he got loaded
of selling vampire parafernalia, teeth and
lenses.</SPAN></FONT></FONT><BR>>>><BR><BR>The women were drawn to
him because he played the role of the "vampire lord?" Good looks? Charm?
Intelligence? Lots of money? I have read females tend to be very
attracted to creative/artistic men. I suppose the first substantially
enhanced transhumans will have an even greater attraction to potential
lovers.<BR><BR>you continue:<BR><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><FONT
size=2><SPAN>As an another example, here is an example why some goth chicks
drive me insane with desire.</SPAN></FONT></FONT><BR>>>><BR><BR>She
is gorgeous. The Goth look for a women (at least to me) is extremely
seductive and enhances female physical beauty. Again, I can
envision genetically modified women in the decades ahead who will embody the
Goth ideal of beauty as no one really could in our present time. I hope
you are able to handle it when you are driven *past* the point of insanity!
lol <BR><BR>Based on what you said regarding the "Goth work ethic," it sounds
like I should tell my brother to encourage his son (when he gets old enough)
to become a member of this subculture! And to think that in the old days
kids became Boy Scouts for a leg up in life! ; )<BR><BR>John
<BR><BR>
<P>
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