<div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">But I do admit that being a citizen of the 1st world pressure cooker is *vastly* better than living in a Latin American, Asian or African ghetto where basic medicine, healthy and plentiful food, civil liberties, adequate shelter and education are only a dream. But many living legally in our "wondrous" 1st world still don't have all their basic living needs met. </blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>incidentally, do google how goths are treated in Iran, Iraq and Mexico. </div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"><font size="2"><span>Dagon wrote:<br>Here's how the biggest goth of the known universe, the inventor of the whole vampire thing turned out: Used to hang with him in Amsterdam a while:</span></font></font><br>
>>></div></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">How did your friend wind up inventing the whole Goth/vampire thing? He sounds like quite an individual! </blockquote>
<div><br>Well of course you realize that was irony. However I do work from the assumption VtMm, the RPG in the 1990s was instrumental of<br>changing mere fringe goth into a mass movement. Not everyone agrees and its a personal observation. VtM was so passionate, so<br>
sincere in portraying goth as the crucial style, and intimately tied up with vampirism, and I got the softcover 1st edition VtM book<br>in 1991 or thereabouts. People around me loved it and I started playing it it in the netherlands, as one of the first WhiteWolfers a<br>
year or two later. Somewhat later Sebastian picked up his vampire version, started a LARP in manhattan and this was by all <br>definitions a legendary affair. He appeared on interviews, with extended fangs, contact lenses and stylish goth clothes and created<br>
an international craze by imitation. Funny enough late 90s I had an NPC called "father Sebastian", taken from an online setting<br>of NYBN (by a guy called quayle) who was clearly a lestatesque spinoff of something this Quayle had heard when listening to the<br>
ZOMFG stories he heard about goth girls being slutty and all that.<br><br>I met sebastian in 2003 when he was publishing his Strigoi Vii book and there was a brief time when I was planning to write the 2.0<br>version of the book. That didn't fizzle out, but I got a good look in the kitchen and Sebastian got a great opportunity to brag about him<br>
fucking with goth penthouse pets, bloodplay, loads of ambiguous sexuality powergames, cuffs, tying up, whipping, as well as the<br>shit with the ventrue, tremere, brujah, blood points and omnious gang-signal like hand gestures used in the game. If you dont have <br>
a clue what this is all about google - Vampire the Masquerade, LARP, bloodlines.<br><br>- <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odXgZiPmjK4">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odXgZiPmjK4</a><br>- <a href="http://fathersebastian.livejournal.com/">http://fathersebastian.livejournal.com/</a><br>
- <a href="http://www.vampires.nu/pages/Books.cfm/ID/1854/PageID/22">http://www.vampires.nu/pages/Books.cfm/ID/1854/PageID/22</a><br>- <a href="http://www.strigoivii.org/">http://www.strigoivii.org/</a><br><br>Sebastian (his real name is Todd) is just a guy surviving. He was more or less chased out of NY after Bush came to power, I dont<br>
know the full details, but he started to wander the world, have adventures all that. <br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
you wrote:<br><div><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"><font size="2"><span>He had girls so pretty, so kinky, so amazingly attractive you'd swallow your words in a second. And he got loaded of selling vampire parafernalia, teeth and lenses.</span></font></font><br>
>>><br><br></div>The women were drawn to him because he played the role of the "vampire lord?" Good looks? Charm? Intelligence? Lots of money? I have read females tend to be very attracted to creative/artistic men. I suppose the first substantially enhanced transhumans will have an even greater attraction to potential lovers.</blockquote>
<div><br>I am not a ladies man myself, but in the period I knew him, I saw three of remarkable quality drift by. The first was a stripper who'd moved to<br>London and I'd classify her as Daymn pretty. The second wanted to get to know him to be dominated in extensive variants of anal play and<br>
stuff with dildos. I dont know other details. The third I'd classify as having the most stunning grey eyes. You can form yourself an idea. The <br>guy was OK looking, not especially pretty. In 2003 he was more or less a drifter. He had a big ego, maybe that was it. I'd say his charm was<br>
largely an image matter. You can safely say I was dying with jealousy, though at the time some people described me in the same terms<br>as they described Sebastian - a sinister cult figure with ties to laveyan Satanism. I certainly didnt do the same stuff as he did, though for<br>
some reason everyone thought I was. <br><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">you continue:<div><br><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"><font size="2"><span>As an another example, here is an example why some goth chicks drive me insane with desire.</span></font></font><br>
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<br></div>She is gorgeous. The Goth look for a women (at least to me) is extremely seductive and enhances female physical beauty. Again, I can envision genetically modified women in the decades ahead who will embody the Goth ideal of beauty as no one really could in our present time. I hope you are able to handle it when you are driven *past* the point of insanity! lol <br>
<br>Based on what you said regarding the "Goth work ethic," it sounds like I should tell my brother to encourage his son (when he gets old enough) to become a member of this subculture! And to think that in the old days kids became Boy Scouts for a leg up in life! ; )<br>
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</font></blockquote></div><br>The question is - how do you respond to social exclusion. We know what happen to people who fit in best - they tend to become<br>average and boring. So conversely social ostracism either destroys someone, or drives him or her to excell. <br>
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