<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 2:17 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:</div> <br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The article cited is talking about something quite different: the idea</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">that if markets are left free from government interference that will</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">always be for the better. This has come to be accepted as indisputable</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">fact by neocons since the early 1980's, with Reagan and Thatcher its</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">most influential proponents. The result has been a 25 year debt</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">bubble, so that the US economy came to consist largely of retail and</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">financial services. The bubble has now well and truly burst and it</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">looks like there is no escaping years of relative poverty for both</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">debtor and creditor nations ahead.</div></blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Agreed. My interest is in understanding the world as it actually</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">exists and trying to make the best of what is available.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The intellectual constructs of 'free market' enthusiasts seem mostly</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">irrelevant as they can never exist where humans interact. One human</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">will always have some advantage over another, so their interaction can</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">never be truly 'free'. Just because you *can* buy Manhattan from the</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">natives very cheaply (in a 'free market') doesn't make it right.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">BillK</div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>The neocons were hypocrites who touted "free market" ideology to get votes and then</div><div>proceeded to interfere deeper into the economy that ever before in history. </div><div>The "world as it actually exists" includes many escape routes for those willing to think </div><div>outside the "relative poverty" box. </div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>I think our founding fathers showed that humans can interact and trade on a free and equal basis.</div><div>Our present "mixed" economy could not exist without some free market elements to mix with the </div><div>fascism and socialism. The equality in this context refers to impartial justice, not individual differences.</div><div>Advantaged people trade on an equal basis in a free market so that anyone with anything to offer gets </div><div>to benefit from what the advantaged ones trade! As long as we don't mix political advantage with </div><div>economic advantage everyone benefits in this win-win game. </div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>If you really want "to make the best of what is available" then I challenge you:</div><div>to think about what can exist where TRANShumans interact, </div><div>to perpetuate progress by seeking the removal of political constraints,</div><div>to transform yourself through critical and creative thinking,</div><div>to practice optimism in place of stagnant pessimism,</div><div>to apply technology to transcend the limits of our culture,</div><div>to support an open society preferring exchange over compulsion,</div><div>to direct your self (rather than long for regulation),</div><div>to think rationally (rather than cynically reject every new idea).</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><a href="http://www.maxmore.com/extprn3.htm">http://www.maxmore.com/extprn3.htm</a></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>-- Thomas</div></body></html>