This is significant example of stupidity in action. You pose a problem here that deceitfully suggests a clear and simple answer. <div><br></div><div>There is immigration from poor countries. This causes significant stress to demographics and institutions in modern,</div>
<div>civilized countries because the immigrants are poor, undereducated and from rather savage and backward places.</div><div>Your complaint covers poor people who resent having their children be educated in schools that have deteriorated</div>
<div>because of immigration. So my questions to you are: </div><div><br></div><div>- is there any humane AND affordable way to stop immigration, including people smuggling or desperate rafting?</div><div>- can immigration of undesirable poor people be reversed, again - humanely and affordably?</div>
<div>- can italy do anything affordably and humanely to make sure emigrants do not have an incentive to come and bother</div><div>poor struggling italians, or cause immigrants in italy to return or go elsewhere?</div><div>
- is there any affordable and humane tool politicians can use to make sure backward and savage immigrants </div><div>integrate and become civilized faster, preferably somewhere later this year?</div><div><br></div><div>My accusation is there is no answer to any of these questions, except "stretching up what is regarded as humane</div>
<div>and affordable". No politician is able to deliver on any promise of closed borders, not without ruining your economic</div><div>infrastructure. No politician is able to deliver on a promise of sending back immigrants humanely and affordably. </div>
<div>Immigrants cannot be integrated in anything less than two, three generations.</div><div><br></div><div>Yes I am aware of these demographic disasters. We have problems with backward and savage maroccans here in</div><div>
the Netherlands, and many of them have gone retrograde in terms of assimilation and integration - and yes they </div><div>behave precisely in a way as to be as contrary and unlikable as possible. The new proverb is no longer "as stubborn</div>
<div>as a mule" but now has become "as stubborn as a maroccan". </div><div><br></div><div>However the nightmare we are in is that we are not able to offer quick solutions. If you demand any, or claim there</div>
<div>are, you are effectively lying, or trying to crowbar into place "sinister or intransparant solutions" using the savage</div><div>immigrant issue as leverage. In the mid 20th century we could wait it out - one or two generations of assimilations</div>
<div>weren't all that bad an expectation. But as even the NY times is starting to notice that sociological and technological</div><div>trends are subject to a puzzling accelerating trend, we don't have that time anymore.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The onlyshort-ter, solution we have is a bit roundabout - it is removing the influence Islam has over this people. </div><div>Islam as a force in the world is currently kept on IV drip by Wahabi sociopaths in Saudi arabia. That means - you and</div>
<div>everyone else who use the damn oil, is keeping islamic evangelism alive with a hefty subsidy via state sponsored mullahs </div><div>over there. But I agree Islam is only a fraction of the problem - we need to make societies all over the world about twice</div>
<div>as rich as they are now to start solving these problems. Right now by exporting whole plainloads of economic power</div><div>abroad we are slowly strangling ourselves with our own hand. This needs to stop, but I am not entirely sure how we</div>
<div>can do that. The current situation is imminently unstable. </div><div><br></div><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">2009/2/6 <a href="mailto:painlord2k@libero.it">painlord2k@libero.it</a> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:painlord2k@libero.it">painlord2k@libero.it</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Il 04/02/2009 22.26, Damien Broderick ha scritto:<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
At 09:21 PM 2/4/2009 +0100, Mirco wrote:<br>
<br>
>polluting my home with unwanted people<br>
<br>
I realize English is not your native language, but I'm not sure<br>
"polluting with people" is a sentiment entirely in line with the<br>
extropian or transhumanist viewpoints. But maybe I'm wrong.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
Helping a few could be good and right, let yourself to be flooded by people over your ability to help them and making only your and others life miserable it is not good or right.<br>
<br>
Sometimes it is a need to be able to draw a limit.<br>
Because there is a limit to the power someone can use without destroying himself. And I don't think that letting themselves being destroyed is very extropic or transhumanist.<br>
<br>
A group of italian mothers in Rome published a letter in a newspaper today to announce they will move their children from the publicly funded school they were used to send them to others, because the school is flooded with alien children that have problem speaking Italian and their behaviour is not acceptable by civilized people. They don't want that their children pay for this situation.<br>
<br>
It is easy for politicos and political activist play with someone else lives, forcing the poors to pay the bills of their good actions. But as these mother wrote, the politics's children are not the children that go to these schools. They go to schools in affluent places or to private schools. No politics will send his six years old children in a classroom where his child is the only native speaker.<br>
<br>
Look Obama, touting more spending in public schools, but sending his dear daughter to a private, elitistic and competitive school.<br>
<br>
Mirco<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
extropy-chat mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat" target="_blank">http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>I said NO SIGNATURE !!!<br>
</div></div>