<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>On Dec 12, 2009, at 2:52 PM, Gordon Swobe wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Verdana; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">That position will lead to panpsychism - the idea that all matter has consciousness -- unless you find some way to justify one thing as conscious and another as not </span></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Use the exact thing that you use right now to determine that some people are smart and others stupid and to determine that some things are conscious and some things are not, behavior. And don't you find the idea that carbon can produce consciousness but silicon can't a little parochial? </div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Verdana; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">without using biological consciousness as the measure!</span></blockquote><br></div><div>You can't use consciousness, biological or otherwise, as the measure because with one exception it is completely undetectable. You'll have to settle for intelligence, it's the best you can do. </div><div><br></div><div> John K Clark</div><br></body></html>