<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>On Dec 14, 2009, at 8:11 AM, Gordon Swobe wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Verdana; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">I think everyone will agree that a piece of paper has no conscious understanding of the symbols it holds, </span></blockquote><div><br></div><div>All I know is that the pieces of paper that I've seen don't act intelligently, or at least not very intelligently. They behave rather like a human being does when they are asleep or dead. As for their consciousness I can only speculate. </div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Verdana; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "> that a piece of paper cannot overcome the symbol grounding problem.</span></blockquote><br></div><div>Old fashioned punch cards were made of paper and they overcame the symbol grounding "problem" in 1890, back then they called them Hollerith cards. Mr. Hollerith went on to start a little company which became IBM.</div><div><br></div><div> John K Clark</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><i><br></i></div></body></html>