<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2010/2/18 Natasha Vita-More <span dir="ltr"><natasha@natasha.cc></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">This is not what the irrational observation was referring
to. Urg. </font></span></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Then I misunderstood you. Sorry for that.<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"></font></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Anyway, on a *different point*, that "global warming
debate only exists because of PR, media and political spin" could be very
true. Although, I'm not entirely sure the world and society feeds off of
PR. Some folks are sequestered in their studies reading peer-review papers
and still others are withdraw to their labs working on experiments about
effects of temperature rises on life forms. I do very much agree
with you on the influence of political positioning, and its PR, on the GW
debate.</font></span></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Since I read Dawkins' The Selfish Gene, and the chapter about memes, my worldview has changed greatly. It's one of those moments when you slap yourself on the front, and say "why I didn't think of this before?" The thought of human minds as an arena for competing memes is unsettling, but self-evidently true, at least to me.<br>
The GW debate seems to be a competion between memes, some grounded in evidence, others instead floating on thin air but finding good support in other pre-existing memes like political orientation, mankind's place in this world (and thus what it can or is able to do, or not), and so on. It's very difficult to discuss this kind of things since most people are already entrenched in one position and can interpret any discussion as a personal critique. I am open to suggestions.<br>
<br>Alfio<br><br><br><br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div>
<div> </div>
<div><span></span><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000ff"><font size="2">B<span>est,</span></font></font></font></div>
<div><span></span><span></span><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000ff"><font size="2">N<span>atasha</span></font></font></font><br></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left" lang="en-us">
<hr>
<font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alfio
Puglisi<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 17, 2010 4:08 PM<br><b>To:</b> ExI
chat list<div><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] Phil Jones acknowledging that climate
science isn'tsettled<br></div></font><br></div><div><div></div><div>
<div></div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 8:49 PM, <span dir="ltr"><natasha@natasha.cc></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote">Your observation is irrational.<br><font color="#888888"><br></font></blockquote>
<div><br>It's not. The global warming debate only exists because of PR, media
and political spin. The scientific debate was over many years ago. I highly
suggest Spencer Weart's history of global warming science: <a href="http://www.aip.org/history/climate/" target="_blank">http://www.aip.org/history/climate/</a><br><br>Alfio<br><br><br><br> </div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote"><font color="#888888">Natasha</font>
<div>
<div></div>
<div><br><br>Quoting Alfio Puglisi <<a href="mailto:alfio.puglisi@gmail.com" target="_blank">alfio.puglisi@gmail.com</a>>:<br><br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 5:55 PM, Natasha Vita-More
<natasha@natasha.cc>wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote">Christopher Luebcke writes:<br><br>"... I just find it
sadly ironic, and a dark reflection on the petty,<br>fiercely partisan,
politicized nature of what should in fact be a sober,<br>scientific
discussion, that a man accused (in the court of political<br>opinion) of
fraud should suddenly be taken at his word by those same<br>accusers, when
that word apparently agrees with their position."<br><br>Many of us find
it frustrating. Nevertheless the biggest problem and<br>disappointment is
that, while everyone seems to annoyed and saddened, there<br>is a lack of
intelligent communication between all parties in viewing the<br>situation
from diverse perspectives.<br><br>Max is working to develop a level ground
for discussion. Bravo to him.<br><br></blockquote><br>I don't agree.
Posting all those links to garbage blogs like WUWT, and<br>quoting them like
they had any value instead of laughing at them (or<br>desperating, depends
on the mood), does a disservice to the Extropy list. It<br>shows how a group
of intelligent people can be easily manipulated by PR<br>spin. I find it
depressing.<br><br>Alfio<br><br><br><br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote">Best,<br>Natasha<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>extropy-chat
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