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John Clark wrote:
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<div>On Aug 14, 2010, at 2:12 PM, Jebadiah Moore wrote:</div>
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<div>There is a form of relativism that doesn't posit that
relativism itself is objectively good,</div>
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Relativism - relative to what exactly? What objective facts are used
to judge the relative merits of one course of action as opposed to
another in a particular situation?<br>
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<div>Then forget about good or bad, is relativism objectively true?<br>
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<div> only that objectivity doesn't exist.</div>
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That is as an objective a claim as I have seen.<br>
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<div>But is what you just said really true, objectively? If we can't
talk about good or evil or truth or falsehood then that would rather
seriously limit the scope of philosophy and we'd only have the
contemptible "the story of Adam and Eve and the talking snake is true
for me" or "it's true for me that 2+2=5". Jebadiah, do you really think
that is the proper way to figure out how the world works?</div>
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<div>By the way, does subjectivity exist, does existence exist?</div>
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Good questions.<br>
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<div>Similarly, "good" and "bad" are super-generalized terms
of value, with "good" and "bad" usually being relative to some value of
"normal" and with "better" and "worse" being used comparatively. [...]</div>
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Really? What is your definition of "value" then? On what basis do you
determine what is "better" or "worse"?<br>
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<div>Yes but you almost make it sound like super-generalized concepts
are a bad idea.
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<div>Value is judged according to some standard; there isn't a
universal standard of value, obviously, because different entities have
different values due to their different goals, positions, and domains
of interaction.</div>
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I am not concerned with universal. I am concerned with rational
ethical standards in the realm of human beings first and foremost. So
you are saying their are no commonalities based on the nature of human
beings to root values in?<br>
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<div>If a Muslim says "I think it was a good thing that a religious
zealot through concentrated sulfuric acid into the face of a young
schoolgirl for the crime of wanting an education" then I have learned
something new, namely the persons standards are OBJECTIVELY
incompatible with my own standards. We would disagree about who is
right and who is wrong but we would both agree that are views are not
in harmonious agreement. You can decide for yourself if your views are
more similar to the Muslim's or to mine. </div>
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<div> in conclusion, there is no objective morality</div>
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Absolutely true, but there is something far more important, subjective
morality. I prefer to associate with people who's subjective morality
is closer to mine than the acid thrower. <br>
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False. In the context of beings with an objective set of
characteristics there is an objective basis for what is the "good"
regarding the behavior of those beings toward one another.<br>
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- samantha<br>
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