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On 9/10/10 4:25 AM, Singularity Utopia wrote:
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<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">Dear
Samantha, and others, a primitive brain naturally has a poor grasp of
possibilities. Primitive brains naturally grasp reality poorly. A good
example of how brainpower limits comprehension is this: imagine a human
trying to explain to a cat or dog the nature of nanotechnology and how
nanotechnology could make it easier for humans to travel to the moon or
to Mars. When super-intelligent-AI is created we will be like cats or
dogs; we cannot fully comprehend future possibilities but with
imagination we can see how our primitive worries will be completely
solved. We will not actually be like cats or dogs because we will
evolve rapidly. From dogs we can transform into gods.<br>
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An argument from the unimaginable nature of not yet existent brains is
not much of an argument. Said future superbrains could be interested
in our wellbeing, indifferent or even outright inimical. If interested
in our wellbeing what they deem best for us may or may not coincide
with our happiest dreams and fond utopias. <br>
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<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">My
example of the free Ubuntu software verses pricey MS software was an
example of how we are moving towards Post-Scarcity... software is
easily replicated and the limits on replication are decreasing, we are
approaching limitless software replication: post-scarcity. When
millions of people download a video each day from YouTube we can see
how that free data is transcending scarcity; there is a plentiful
amount of data but it is not yet Post-Scarcity. When MNT-3D-printing
becomes widespread, very competent, then millions of people will
download products or food, which will be constructed via EXTREMELY
efficient usage of resources for very little cost, this will be another
step towards Post-Scarcity but similar to the free operating system
Ubuntu it won't actually be Post-Scarcity but merely a step closer.<br>
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Already debugged. Your example does not show what you wanted it to.<br>
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You may doubt that we will ever create a brain 12 orders of magnitude
faster (or greater) and generally more powerful than our own brains,
but when we do we will not be creating something different to ourselves
we will be reinventing ourselves, we will become super-beings, we will
transcend our human beginnings: this concept of Transhumanism can seem
weird but in 10 or 20 years people will have a better grasp upon how
humans are evolving. We will become super-beings if we want to.
Sometimes it can be difficult to see how technology advances quicker
each year and it will probably only be with hindsight that people look
back to this point in history as a crucial period regarding
accelerating change. </div>
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Most of us here grasp that possibility and have grasped it for quite
some time. <br>
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<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">The
growth of processing power is accelerating. Our grasp of the world is
accelerating. The Singularity is coming. INFINITY is entirely possible.</div>
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I patiently argued that it is not. You did not counter my arguments
but only reassert your position. This is a bit of a bore.<br>
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Humans who wish to remain unchanged/primitive will be free to do so. </div>
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Well, if you convert the planet into something else then they will only
be free to do so as uploads (without telling them this is what has
happened as that would be very upsetting to them). <br>
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will no scarcity of universes where everyone can exist however they
desire.</div>
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In upload space this is more true. But even upload space is rooted in
finite real world computational infrastructure.<br>
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Do you think the creation of matter and universes is difficult for a
supremely-intelligent-being?</div>
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Creation off matter, real physical matter? As far as we know there is
no means of ex nihlio matter/energy creation. What does your
"supremely" mean? Does it mean some ultimate pinnacle or just
inconceivably smarter than us? No matter how intelligent no being can
circumvent whatever the laws of physics of the containing universe turn
out to be.<br>
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Creating a universe would probably be as easily as creating a sandwich
if your brainpower is sufficiently large. </div>
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A virtual one, yes. It is likely possible to blow off a new Big Bang
creating a separate physical universe you cannot reach or much
influence beyond perhaps tweaking its physics. Beyond that, no, not
by our current understanding. <br>
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will be no scarcity of matter. Virtual reality will become
indistinguishable from reality. </div>
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Yet they are not the same thing. Virtual realities depend upon the
physical substrate beneath them. You cannot create infinity on top of
finite matter/energy substrate. You can create much more than you can
at the physical level alone. But it is not literally infinite.<br>
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<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">Virtual
worlds and real worlds will both be utterly controllable to satisfy the
desires and needs of anybody and everybody.</div>
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How do you know? Will there be any conflicts of interests? Will there
be any instances of multiple competing desires for how to use any
particular existing set of physical resources? Remember even the
virtual depends upon the underlying physical. <br>
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At one point in our history a primitive computer was the size of an
entire room but today we have much much powerful computers that are
comparatively tiny. As computing power grows our computers become
smaller. The concept of a Jupiter sized brain (Mbrain) is a primitive
notion because massive computers in the future will not need to
actually be physically massive.<br>
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*Scratches head* Do you acknowledge there is any limit at all on the
amount of computation that can be performed by a given chunk of
matter/energy? <br>
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can do impossible things.</div>
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By definition no being can do an impossible thing, only some things
that were thought impossible but actually are possible. The truly
impossible cannot be done, ever.<br>
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>From putting men on the Moon to overcoming Black slavery and electing a
Black President. We continually change the nature of what is possible.
Humans can grasp reality mistakenly, therefore we may think our Earth
is the center of our solar system or that Post-Scarcity is impossible.
We are evolving. Keep an open mind. Reality is a bit like the scene in
Ghostbusters where a giant marshmallow man is created.<br>
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I explained exactly what post-scarcity I think is possible or in that
direction and why I don't think the end of all scarcity forever is
possible. You have not given a counter-argument. Insinuating that my
and other minds here are too closed is not an argument. Remember you
are among those that would like to believe or rather would like the
future to be as extraordinarily good as possible. You are among people
who dream big and have for a very long time. We are not known for
having closed minds to say the least. Comparing those who disagree
with parts of your ideas to those who believed the earth was the center
of the universe is despicable. But then perhaps it is not surprising
if you think in terms of a giant marshmallow man being possible and an
implied infinitely malleable physical reality. <br>
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<span><a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
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You create the future via your desires.</div>
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We create the future at the intersection of our desires and reality.
You cannot leave off the reality part and expect to be taken seriously.<br>
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Your expectations skew you perceptions thereby forcing you to create
reality according to your expectations. Really... you should read up on
the concept of self-fulfilling prophecy. Expect utopia.</div>
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*yawn* Been there, done that.<br>
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There are no nefarious people prohibiting Post-Scarcity. You are
responsible for reality. </div>
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No. I am only responsible for what I have some influence/control
over. Not for all of reality.<br>
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create reality. </div>
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So, did you create the very framework within which you exist? Did you
create the entire universe into which you were born? No? Then you do
not create reality without some rather important caveats that your
statement is missing.<br>
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<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">The
only limit to Post-Scarcity is yourself. </div>
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Are you really thinking about this or just spouting what you want to
believe?<br>
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<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">If
you choose to see nefarious people in the world then that is your
choice... Imagine you are asleep dreaming but instead of dreaming about
pleasant things you dream about monsters, pain, and suffering. Dreams
are a good example of how people create reality. Theoretically we have
the power to dream whatever we want. Each night we could dream about
the most fabulous utopia where we enjoy ultimate pleasures. Our dreams
are totally inside our heads but we fail to appreciate how we have the
reality to control our dreams, therefore we sometimes dream about
unpleasant things. Our failure to control our dreams is similar to our
control over reality. The world is exactly the way you want it to be
(subconsciously). The world is your dream. I choose to dream of utopia.
I know you are not nefarious, nobody is nefarious, and I know you will
soon believe without any doubt that Post-Scarcity is possible.<br>
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Do you acknowledge a difference between dreams and reality? What is
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I know you will believe that reality is infinite, without any limits
whatsoever, because your mind is limitless. The positive feedback will
feedback to create "eternal positivity" and the positivity will be
immensely positive. The future will be infinitely positive.<br>
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No, my mind and yours is certainly not limitless. It is quite limited
by the architecture of the human brain. You are coming off like a
mystic. <br>
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<span><a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-fulfilling_prophecy">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-fulfilling_prophecy</a></span>
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Regarding my name I would say, what's in a name? A rose by any other
name smells just as sweet. Utopia is the sweetest rose.<br>
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Believe! Dream! Seize the limitless power of reality! I know you will
soon begin to believe in utopian Post-Scarcity. You can see it
happening by 2045 at the latest... I know. I can see your mind changing
because I see my own mind changing. I can see you dreaming. This is our
dream. We dream of utopia! This is our reality. This is science. This
is technology. This is existence. This IS reality. You are alive. <br>
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Without grounding in reality it is neither science, technology or
existence. I see you making no effort to so ground it and dismissing
any attempts to do so. Best of luck with that.<br>
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- samantha<br>
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