<meta charset="utf-8"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; border-collapse: collapse; ">Jeff wrote:</span><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; border-collapse: collapse; "><br>
</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; border-collapse: collapse; ">>I must confess however that the recent characterization of Wikileaks<br>and Assange as "terrorists" is quite scary to me.<</span><div>
<font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; "><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse;">My favorite history book in the world is Berlin Diary, by William Shirer. He's a terrific writer, but it really gave me an inside look at how totalitarian governments propagandize their own citizens. The endless bullshitting and specious reasoning and outlandish justifications. Whenever Hitler invaded a new country the Nazi propaganda machine always said that a certain segment of the population in the target country were being oppressed and that they were in fact not oppressors themselves blithely goose-stepping their way into foreign territory but rather liberators. Did it in Poland, Czechoslovakia, France. The fact that some government officials want to brand Wikileaks as a terrorist organization should scare you. It should scare all of us. As you suggest, you can paint anything with that particular brush. It reminds me very much of the kind of propaganda tactic that Shirer described. </span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; "><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; ">I once belonged to a list like this one only for members of the Writer's Union of Canada. I had to withdraw, because I once compared Bush to Hitler and people on the list were outraged ( that and the fact that many of them said that writers shouldn't be political, which I've always thought was a crock.) I wasn't given the opportunity to explain that though Bush obviously didn't start a holocaust or have a night of the long knives, some the language and the tactics employed to keep people scared and confused and loyal to the political cause during his first term after the 2001 attacks also reminded me a lot of what Shirer described as taking place in Germany in the 30's. </span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; "><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; "><meta charset="utf-8"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: arial; ">>When the anger returns, I have the energy to imagine a way out short<br>
of revolution. Currently, I still see a way out. Maybe it's a false<br>hope, maybe not.<</span></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; "><br>
</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; ">I've got my eye on this Wikileaks thing closely. People always think that what happened fifty years ago could never happen again. We're so much more civilized. Maybe not to that degree, but we are still as a species capable of a lot of deadly nonsense. World War II was what? Three or four generations ago? The single largest event in the history of mankind and fifty-two million people murdered just three generations ago out of forty thousand generations total. Not a promising arc. So when I look at things from that perspective I do get a little cynical. But as a rule I try to keep the faith. I was tear-gassed in Quebec City and assaulted in Durban South Africa during protests, and was probably ineffective in what I set out to do. But I'm still glad I did those things. And I would do them again.</span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; "><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; ">></span></font>I say this because the last time we disagreed, I was fierce and as is</div>
<meta charset="utf-8">sometimes the case, harsh.<<div><br></div><div>Don't even recall it. I'll have to search my archives and revive my outrage. Meantime, have a Merry Christmas yourself. I don't believe that Jesus was anything more than a man, but I know Santa Claus is real. I have the proof: dozens of toys that he gave me when I was a kid that I still have. My favourite is a plastic wind-up r2d2 that sits on my mantle. :)<br>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 11px; "><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 11px;">Darren</span></font></div>
<div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 11px; "><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 11px;"><br>
</span></font><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Jeff Davis <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jrd1415@gmail.com">jrd1415@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
First, let me say Darren, that I appreciate your participation here,<br>
and though we may at times disagree, that's a good thing. It provokes<br>
a spirited discourse and keeps us all on our toes.<br>
<br>
Olive branch. Not personal.<br>
<br>
I say this because the last time we disagreed, I was fierce and as is<br>
sometimes the case, harsh. But I've calmed down and gotten over it.<br>
Welcome. Merry Christmas, and I've got your back.<br>
<br>
Best, Jeff Davis<br>
<br>
"Enjoying being insulting is a youthful corruption<br>
of power. You lose your taste for it when you<br>
realize how hard people try, how much they<br>
mind, and how long they remember."<br>
Martin Amis<br>
<br>
...now to substance<br>
<br>
<br>
2010/12/16 Darren Greer <<a href="mailto:darren.greer3@gmail.com">darren.greer3@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
<div class="im">> What these papers reveal is that the whole system is so<br>
> hopelessly corrupt and devoid of ethics that, short of revolution,<br>
> people are powerless to do anything about it.<br>
<br>
</div>I'm torn. Cynicism is a kind of drug for easing the discomfort of<br>
despair and seeming-powerlessness . I'm a regular user. It helps me<br>
feel better but never persuades. The anger always rises again.<br>
Consider the old saying, "Know the truth and the truth shall set you<br>
free." Well, yes and no. No, in the sense that it's only the first<br>
step. Grabbing the liars by the scruff of the neck, and holding them<br>
accountable, well that might be the more difficult part of the<br>
truth-leads-to-freedom process.<br>
<br>
When the anger returns, I have the energy to imagine a way out short<br>
of revolution. Currently, I still see a way out. Maybe it's a false<br>
hope, maybe not.<br>
<br>
Anyway, it's the holiday season, so save your cynicism for after the<br>
new congress is convened in January. That's the season of despair.<br>
<br>
<snip><br>
<div class="im"><br>
> If I had any doubt about this, it disappeared when I started checking public<br>
> opinion polls. The majority of people interviewed in a poll in the U.S. over<br>
> the August Afghanistan leaks think that governments should be allowed to<br>
> keep secrets and we should do just keep quiet and support them.<br>
> <a href="http://www.aolnews.com/2010/08/03/poll-more-americans-view-afghan-war-docs-leak-as-harmful/" target="_blank">http://www.aolnews.com/2010/08/03/poll-more-americans-view-afghan-war-docs-leak-as-harmful/</a><br>
<br>
</div>AOL is as MSM as you can get. No credibility there. And take a look<br>
at the comments section following that article. Nine of ten of the<br>
respondents are emphatic in their contempt for the poll results. They<br>
think it's a crock. Which "poll" ya gonna believe?<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> In another more recent on-going poll on MSNBC,<br>
> slightly under 50 percent<br>
> think Wikileaks should be declared a terrorist organization.<br>
> <a href="http://www.blameitonthevoices.com/2010/11/poll-is-wikileaks-terrorist.html" target="_blank">http://www.blameitonthevoices.com/2010/11/poll-is-wikileaks-terrorist.html</a><br>
<br>
</div>I took a look at that poll. Incredible. They ask if Wikileaks is a<br>
terrorist organization, and then they give the argument in support of<br>
that contention, and THEN they ask what the reader thinks. And they<br>
still couldn't get a majority to say yes.<br>
<br>
I must confess however that the recent characterization of Wikileaks<br>
and Assange as "terrorists" is quite scary to me. Because it<br>
resonates. Falsely. But resonates nevertheless, I suppose because<br>
the right has used "terrorist" so widely and loosely tha tnow, anyone<br>
or anything in active opposition to US Govt authority -- dissent,<br>
activism, independent journalism --is a candidate for the label, and<br>
the consequences. But even the MSM is now pushing back against that.<br>
<br>
Anyway, don't give up hope just yet. I'm still betting that the tech<br>
wizardry that has given us the internet and changed the world, will<br>
lead us to a solution.<br>
<br>
<snip><br>
<div class="im"><br>
> Sorry if I seem a bit cynical. I'm putting up Christmas decorations and I'm trying to get in the mood. :)<br>
<br>
</div>Meeeeeeeeerry Christmas, ho ho ho.<br>
<br>
Best, Jeff Davis<br>
<br>
"And I think to myself, what a wonderful world!"<br>
Louie Armstrong<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><font face="Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif"><span style="line-height:26px"><span style="font-family:'Lucida Grande', 'Trebuchet MS', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;line-height:normal;color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><span style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;font-style:italic"><span style="background-color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">"In the end that's all we have: our memories - electrochemical impulses stored in eight pounds of tissue the consistency of cold porridge." </span></span><span style="background-color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">- Remembrance of the Daleks</span></span></span></font><br>
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