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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Clark<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] Singletons<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Jan 3, 2011, at 12:30 PM, Anders Sandberg wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>>…</span>Imagine that there is a particular kind of physics experiment that causes cosmic vacuum decay<span style='color:#1F497D'>…</span> <span style='color:#1F497D'>Anders<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>Perhaps that explains the Fermi Paradox, in the context of Everett's Many World interpretation we happen to be living in a fantastically unlikely universe where nobody has thought of that very obvious and simple experiment, yet<span style='color:#1F497D'>…</span>John K Clark <span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I thought of a related notion: perhaps there is some technology that causes a star to collapse to neutronium, so that in general, technology-enabled planets eventually stumble upon it and accidentally big-crunch the star about which they orbit, subsequently freezing all the surrounding planets, resulting in that tech-enabled life form disappearing forever without a whimper. I would reach for that as an explanation for dark matter, but it has a problem: it doesn’t explain why the dark matter in a galaxy seems to be way more prevalent in the outer regions of a galaxy than in the galactic core.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Perhaps the galactic core stars are more often sterilized by nearby gamma ray bursts, so technology has more time to develop in the galactic suburbs? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I rely on imaginative SF writers to speculate on an explanation.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>spike<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>The system monitors all activity, and stomps on attempts at making the experiment. Everybody knows about the limitation and can see the logic of it. It might be possible to circumvent the system, but it would take noticeable resources that fellow inhabitants would recognize and likely object too.<br><br>Now, is this really unacceptable and/or untenable?<br><br><br>The rigidity of rules the singleton enforces can be all over the place from deterministic stimulus-responses to the singleton being some kind of AI or collective mind. The legitimacy can similarly be all over the place, from a basement accidental hard takeoff to democratic one-time decisions to something that is autonomous but designed to take public opinion into account. There is a big space of possible singleton designs.<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Let's look at a population of cultures the size of a galaxy. How do<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>you produce an existential risk within a single system that can wipe more than a stellar system? In order to produce larger scale mayhem<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>you need to utilize the resources of a large number of stellar<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>systems concertedly, which requires large scale cooperation of<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>pangalactic EvilDoers(tm).<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><br>If existential risks are limited to local systems, then at most there is a need for a local singleton (and maybe none, if you like living free and dangerously).<br><br>However, there might be threats that require wider coordination or at least preparation. Imagine interstellar "grey goo" (replicators that weaponize solar systems and try to use existing resources to spread), and a situation of warfare where the square of number of units gives the effective strength (as per the Lanchester law; whether this is actually true in real life will depend on a lot of things). In that case allowing the problem to grow in a few systems far enough would allow it to become overwhelming. In this case it might be enough to coordinate defensive buildup within a broad ring around the goo, but it would still require coordination - especially if there were the usual kind of public goods problems in doing it.<br><br><br>-- <br>Anders Sandberg,<br>Future of Humanity Institute<br>Philosophy Faculty of Oxford University <br>_______________________________________________<br>extropy-chat mailing list<br><a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat">http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>