<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername">smonkey</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:smonkey@gmail.com">smonkey@gmail.com</a>></span><br>Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 5:33 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [chicago-reprap] well well, how is everyone?<br>To: <a href="mailto:chicago-reprap@googlegroups.com">chicago-reprap@googlegroups.com</a><br><br><br>And then of course, there is what I like to think of as the "3d printer singularity" which I feel is rapidly approaching.<br>
<br>True, it won't be a real "singularity" but the tech is changing super fast.<br>
<br>There are now a bunch of3d printer variants out there that work on some type of filament deposition setup (reprap, makerbot things, etc) that are all basically the same bits that one can easily port improvements back and forth at whim.<br>
<br>This means that hacker 3d printing is advancing fast! Super fast! Just in the past couple of days Makerbot released a water disolvable plastic, and some guy on thingiverse dropped in a double head extruder.<br><br>This means that within a year or so there'll be multiple material printing which will allow support materials, allowing....well.....craziness.<br>
<br>Oh, and that's not even going into the people printing circuit boards. Whoa!<br><br>I'm betting the Makerbot cats are going to regret selling the thing-o-matic and quite soon the main demand will be for a basic bot just to learn basic skills on. After that one's going to build oneself a nice big reprap anyway.<br>
<br>nat<br><br><br><br><br>nat<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM, andres <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:andres@healthytiger.com" target="_blank">andres@healthytiger.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I've got some issues with the cost associated with the ToM and makerbot stuff in general. I understand they are a business, but it seems like they have suffered from having margins that were started as way too thin. now they are scrambling away from that however they can and putting cost where people (some may say suckers) are willing to pay for it (unicorn, 3d scanner, frostruder prices come to mind). i do like the look of their current hotend, but there are actually a ton of good options for those these days. there has been a bunch of learning since the first crummy ones, (one of which i am still using, though hopefully my <a href="http://arcol.hu" target="_blank">arcol.hu</a> one gets delivered sometime in the next week.)<div>
<br></div><div>the cost of a thing-o-matic shouldn't ACTUALLY be much off of the cost of a cupcake. just plywood sheeting differences. the added build area is "free" with the design change. The new mk6 stepstruder, doesn't have to be $200, when it only works as well as one of the printed geared stepper extruders (that are capable of working with a much less beefy stepper.) for some reason makerbot is making a big deal about the "direct drive" aspect of their new design, but honestly a bit of backlash makes zero difference on print quality when you have settings dialed in, in fact with gearing you actually get greater resolution. Maybe you can print with faster extrusion rates on direct drive, but print speeds tend to be limited by many other factors anyway. (the ultimaker's print rate seems to be the reigning champ, and that one is geared. most of their gain seems to be in lowering the moving mass by going bowden with their extruder motor and keeping a moving XY like the darwin design)</div>
<div><br></div><div>i mean $1300 is quite a bit of money, and they havne't really upped the reliability of their electronics much (honestly a huge issue with makerbots currently. i've had several "random" resets through esd and comm issues and ruined prints as a result, i'm going to be upgrading to better reprap electronics sometime soon). at least they don't rely on the crummy DC motor they used to. the new mendel designs (specifically the Prusa one) is super simplified from the days of Darwin and at most $600 to completely build, including buying the printed pieces. but i'll let you know how setup and dialing in goes when i build mine. I made it through the struggle of adjustment and calibration of a darwin, and i've probably sunk more than the cost of the ToM over time. i'm looking forward to building a prusa.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I've actually said to some people that i'd actually have considered that getting a cupcake to print mendel parts on would have been the most cost effective way to get started (back when they first started selling it, which was after i started my own investment), but that is kind of out of the window now that they are no longer selling a $900 kit.</div>
<div><br></div><div>for what it is worth. i'd say the best way of getting printing today is buying solder kits for the boards (all components presourced, and i'd say to go RAMPs instead of the makerbot versions), motors separately through whatever manufacturer (Lin, zapp, etc), and printed parts and hardware for a mendel (plenty of sites sell these as kits, and you can always go ebay from printers like myself). </div>
<div><br></div><div>some sites to check out - <a href="http://makergear.com" target="_blank">makergear.com</a> (USA), <a href="http://mendel-parts.com" target="_blank">mendel-parts.com</a> (EU), <a href="http://ultimachine.com" target="_blank">ultimachine.com</a> (USA)</div>
<div><br></div><div>definitely much easier than the route i had to go. laser cut darwin parts (ponoko, back when they were only in NZ), hardware individually sourced through mcmaster & amazon, preprinted boards from makerbot, sourced components through digikey and mouser, hoped that things printed well enough to build a stepper extruder. some extra boards along the way, separate replacement belts (and having to carve my own belt gears out of acrylic scraps as i couldn't print gears well enough without them.)</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>as for the business model of a printed parts market, it is going to be fairly tough to find a space between the reprap irc group where people can get help with printed parts for little or no cost, and companies like shapeways and any 3d printing house where high quality parts can be gotten out of a variety of materials. there might be a middle ground, but I think the variation of print quality in the hobby community might lack quality control for requests and fulfillment to match. at least in a professional environment (i'm an ME professionally) you can go to hitting dimensional tolerances as a measure if getting what you pay for, but with reprap and other homemade prints you are also talking about strength and layer adhesion variation (and cosmetic blob/string variations) that is probably all over the place for the producers who would be into such a venture. it would be tough to nail down expectations, though it may be possible. let me know if you want any more input from me, but i'm kind of just one point of view, you'll need to get some input from the customer point of view too. </div>
<div><br></div><div>anyway. i've got to get back into blogging my experiences, but i'll try to keep the group up to date with my prusa mendel build i'll be doing next month. right now i am switching over to printing PLA for the bushings, and taking care of a few more optimizations on my darwin along the way. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Can i just say how sad i am about having to disassemble and cannibalize my darwin. i mean we have kind of been through a lot over the last 2 years.</div><div><br></div><div>excuse me while i go get some tissues.</div>
<div><br></div><font color="#888888"><div>andres.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></font><div><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div></div><div>On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Brian Chamberlain <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:blchamberlain@gmail.com" target="_blank">blchamberlain@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div></div><div>Yeah, same here. I have drifted a bit and been busy with other things. Namely trying to finish school. <br>
<br>I hope to get back on this 3D printing band wagon. I'm really liking the new Makerbot Thing-o-matic but have not set aside the $$$ to get one yet.<br>
<br>I have also been kicking around the idea for a 3D parts site like Thingiverse but where people could request parts from other people who have 3D printers (for exchange of $$$, or equivalent). Though, I'm not sure how the transactions would work. Would people post requests for parts and give a price?(buyer sets price) Would there be bidding on a part from multiple people who can print it?(reverse ebay) Would the people printing things set the price of stuff they've printed before and know can reproduce well?(Etsy model) I'd like to avoid any model that encourages a "race to the bottom" for the price of an item. I'm thinking the focus would be more on building a relationship (whatever that means in an online context) with the person printing the thing. Anyone heard of a site or something like this? Or ideas on what model might work as most of you all have printers which sit idle from time-to-time and *might* want to have that idle time filled with print jobs which can earn you money. What would you be comfortable with?<br>
<br>Thanks!<br>Brian<div><div></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:44 PM, smonkey <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:smonkey@gmail.com" target="_blank">smonkey@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Hi!<br><br>I guess I just drifted from this list like everyone else.<br><br>I bought myself a cupcake last spring and slowly got it up and running. Then a busy summer/winter, but now with lots of time again its running really well. I've got a heated build platform <br>
and can crank out basic shapes with consistency and accuracy.<br><br>I've still got some tuning issues to get overhangs better. I suspect I'm running a bit hot and might need some cooling time in there.<br><br>I haven't been by PS1 in months and months. Having my own studio and workspace and Makerbot means if I have time to hack, I do it here.<br>
<br>But I always mean to drop by or meetings. I just never get around to it. <br><br><br><br>Nat<div><div></div><div><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Andres Huertas <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:andres@healthytiger.com" target="_blank">andres@healthytiger.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Hey all,<br>
<br>
Just wondering how people were getting along. have people given up<br>
hope? has anyone bought their way into a working system? (cupcake?<br>
ToM? mendel?) have people just forgotten about this community as a<br>
whole, on to bigger and better things? I'm also curious of who<br>
frequents pumping station one and what you all are working on if you<br>
are there.<br>
<br>
I've continued my odyssey and actually i'm printing quite reliably and<br>
with very decent quality on my darwin repstrap. (software issues be<br>
damned, i've learned enough to be dangerous) I've just about printed<br>
full parts to build a prusa mendel (a few PLA bushings left), and i'll<br>
probably be cannibalizing my old friend for parts and rebuilding it<br>
smaller stronger and faster sometime in the next few months.<br>
<br>
I wanted to write the group to remind / let people know that the cost<br>
of getting a printer up and running has really gone down lately. also,<br>
there is enough knowledge between me and others who are printing here<br>
in chicago (be it makerbot or homebuilt) to help through any issues.<br>
here is a link for bare bones costs of a reprap system :<br>
<a href="http://repraplogphase.blogspot.com/2011/01/cheap-skates-guide-to-510ish-mendel-360.html" target="_blank">http://repraplogphase.blogspot.com/2011/01/cheap-skates-guide-to-510ish-mendel-360.html</a><br>
<br>
i'm not quite in a place to print "free" parts for others, i've got a<br>
few more mods and stuff for myself, and then i'm going to print a<br>
couple of sets of prusa mendels to sell into the web community to<br>
recoup some cash, but like i said, i'm totally willing to help with my<br>
time and experience.<br>
<br>
anyway, i'm willing to help so just get at me.<br>
<br>
andres.<br>
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</font></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br></div></div><font color="#888888">-- <br>"Science is a Differential Equation. Religion is a Boundry Condition." - A. Turing</font><div><div></div><div>
<br>
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