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Everyone always cracks me up, all this talk about "(behave as if
he)" and so on. Is there nothing beyond behavior that anyone is
interested in yet? What about the all the effing good stuff? Is
any of that mentioned in any of the books about the future of sex?
Or is it all just about lying behavior?<br>
<br>
I was excited to see so much talk about BDSM, this is obviously a
minority camp, and I pity the majority that are in for a big
surprise when they fully find out how effing great true BDSM really
is. But still, for me, even only the "pair up BM robots with SD
humans" is missing what is for me the real good stuff. What gets me
off mostly, being a switch, is knowing what it will feel like for
someone doing something to me. That kind of shared recursive
awareness is way beyond anything purely behavioral. I am so looking
forward to effing what that is like to others, I bet most of you
will be completely shocked, as any behavior, talking, or anything
will never get close to what it is really like.<br>
<br>
Fully sharing all this is still effingly impossible, you can still
only know half of what is going on, only guessing from the
'behavior' - really wondering if they are lying, if they are
experiencing more or less than you ever knew was possible... Is
anyone interested in knowing such or what their partner is really
experiencing? Is their behavior all that matters to you? Do you
always want your partner to tell you what they need, via some
behavior? Or do you want to know, first hand, and not just
experience half of it and guess the rest through behavior?<br>
<br>
Stefano mentioned "or perhaps better..."<br>
<br>
Might I ask what you imagine such to be? I hope it's more than just
behavior?<br>
<br>
I imagine taking all these phenomenal pleasures, hard wired, like
puppet strings by my primitive creator, making me do what it wanted
me to do. I'm so pained that I must give up so much of what I want
to do, in order to spend the time to get any of this, and giving up
so much of the reverse, as I work to resist such, to be socially
acceptable, and to get anything useful done at all. I imagine
rewiring all this great stuff to more powerfully in synch with
everything I want to do, not all this gross waist of time, anti
social stuff. And not only that, I imagine getting my hands
involved in designing and improving and hacking such phenomenal
stuff, and pushing towards becoming omni phenomenal. I bet there
are things possible out there in nature trillions of times more than
any human has come close to experiencing, even if you only stay with
what some of the lessor animals must be experiencing when they do
it.<br>
<br>
Who cares about mindless behavior and programming such into ever
more sophisticated behavior playback machines that are only behaving
as if they are in love?<br>
<br>
Why is everyone, especially transhumanists, so quick to miss what
the expert consensus is telling us about what consciousness, sex,
and effing really is, what it really means, and what sharing all
that will be like in the near future? (for more info see the new
proposed opening part of the Representational Qualia camp statement
here: <a href="http://canonizer.com/thread.asp/88/1/22/11">http://canonizer.com/thread.asp/88/1/22/11</a>
) Is anyone else out there interested in more than just behavior?
It should would be nice to know, definitively.<br>
<br>
Brent Allsop<br>
<br>
P.S, I'm watching how many of you respond with the popular
completely clueless, primitive, and ignorant "Oh Gross, I don't want
to know what my partner is experiencing and share what I'm
experiencing..." most people respond to such talk with. Seriously,
I really want to know if anyone really gets any of this, and
rigorously measure how much progress the experts are making at
educating the rest of the world about what is about to be effing
possible and what the world will be like 100 years from now. That
which you measure, improves, and if you have half a clue, please
support the "Representational Qualia Camp" and help us educate the
rest of the world.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 5/6/2011 11:40 AM, spike wrote:
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">>…</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";"> <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Stefano Vaj<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [ExI] From Friendly AI to Loving AI<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 6 May 2011 08:23, Kelly Anderson <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kellycoinguy@gmail.com">kellycoinguy@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">>>…</span>If
you want a serious treatment of this subject, I highly
recommend<br>
Love + Sex with Robots by David Levy<span style="color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);">… </span>I suspect someone very soon
will combine robotics with the RealDoll,<br>
and create an extremely expensive, amazing device that will
make th<span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">e </span>moral
majority very uncomfortable.<span style="color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Focus on this a minute. If
someone manages to create a sex machine and the moral
majority is squirmy about it, I ask them to show me in
their sacred literature exactly what commandment or
principle or ethical guideline is being violated by the
whole notion. Do let them cite the example of Onan in
Genesis 38:8-10, I’m ready, eager even, to debate that.
Go ahead, I dare ya. {8^D Kelly, you are one who was
trained in that discipline (religion based morality.)
Pretend you are still in that thought-space, and do
suggest a line of argument that there is AAAAANYTHING at
all wrong with taking care of one’s biological needs using
a sexbot. Anything. Bible only, no Mormon lit please.
Be prepared; I have pondered this long and hard, and I
find nothing, nada. {8^D {8-]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">>…</span>This makes
me think of the debate endlessly resurfacing on the
poorly-defined and somewhat contradictory idea "friendly AIs".<span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> …</span>If he or she is
not bound to (behave as if he) be sexually attracted by you,
there is little point in having one around just as a sex toy
when your chances are just the same with a fellow human being.
Or perhaps better... :-)<span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">
</span>-- <span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span>Stefano
Vaj<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">For a remarkable Hollywood treatment of this
topic, see West World:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070909/">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070909/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">That was made nearly 40 years ago, but it was a
fun romp, not a comedy but not really a terror drama either;
rather it was thought provoking, and way ahead of its time.
It has so many elements we yak on about today: AGI, friendly
evolving to unfriendly, sexbots, good kick and stomp with
Yul Brenner doing a convincing job as a proto-Data, lots of
good visuals for those of us who appreciate early to mid
1970s fashion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">spike<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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