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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Will Steinberg<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 20, 2011 8:47 AM<br><b>To:</b> Dan; ExI chat list<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] Libertarianism wins again...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>Sorry I can't be as starry-eyed as some of you. Government needs to be there to do things that couldn't be paid for or organized otherwise. Sorry (again,) but it's true. Countless infrastructural components of our daily lives cannot simply tune into the wondrous libertarian free-market force, because there is no cognizant demand for them. Everything that is a unitary product, people can pay for. Some things, like highways, will never be a dollar at the local supermarket. This is what taxes and tolls are for, because most people living in a country are too unaware of the fact that countless government-provided amenities that they use every day require money to maintain. If you're so concerned about the evils of current-day government (which are very, very scary and apparent)--do something about it! Go make a new government somewhere! <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>Because I can guarantee your libertarian paradise will never exist. Now, more then ever, a benevolent controlling force is needed to make sure things proceed in the right direction. Do you not have the drive to become it? Because I will, if you don't.<span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Will, I intentionally left your entire post intact without trimming anything, because your argument fights itself. I wanted it all there.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>You give the example of roads, then give two ways roads are paid for and maintained, one of which is an excellent example of a free market solution. You comment “This is what taxes and tolls are for…”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Agreed. Roads can be built on private property and paid for with tolls. Users fees pay for maintenance, excellent example of a free market solution. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>></span> …Now, more then ever, a benevolent controlling force is needed…<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sure but how do we keep a controlling force benevolent? I propose market competition.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>… make sure things proceed in the right direction.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Indeed. What if this benevolent controlling force sends things off in the wrong direction, such as is happening right now?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>>…</span> Do you not have the drive to become it? Because I will, if you don't.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Will, this comment does fail to reassure me that controlling forces will be benevolent. Eventually the benevolent forces become the new pigs.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>spike<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>