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<DIV dir=ltr lang=en-us class=OutlookMessageHeader align=left><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011></SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial>-<SPAN
class=656375312-06092011> A wrote: </SPAN><BR></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT></DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>On 6 September
2011 01:57, Natasha Vita-More <SPAN dir=ltr><natasha@natasha.cc></SPAN>
wrote:<BR></FONT>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote><U></U>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff"><FONT size=2><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN> </SPAN>Pray is a strange request.
</FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=2><BR><FONT face=Arial></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011> > </SPAN>Heh - apologies; apparently my
email went through a 16th Century English filter ;-) "Pray tell"
just means "please do say"...</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Made me laugh. But anyway, I mean that
most</FONT></P>
<DIV class=im><FONT size=2 face=Arial>transhumanists are not militant
atheists. <BR></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011> > </SPAN>Ah - ok. Well, I have to say
that there is a large overlap with the increasingly strident atheist community,
but it is of course hard to keep track of how <SPAN
class=656375312-06092011> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011>> </SPAN>many futurist-inclined atheists
identify as transhumanists and vice versa in the absence of a large, formal
survey. <SPAN class=656375312-06092011> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011> </SPAN><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=656375312-06092011><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Yes, but even
a strident atheist community or as you say militant atheists is
an aggression I find a turn off. Why? Because in my view harsh,
shrill, combative actions are often dismissed as emotional and lacking in logic.
It seems to me that the strategy in <EM>The Art of War</EM> is based on
objective conditions and subjective understanding of the other. If were
were militant, I would prefer it be more strategic than
reactionary.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><SPAN class=656375312-06092011></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=656375312-06092011><FONT size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=656375312-06092011><FONT size=2 face=Arial>>Suffice to say
that I'd be extremely <SPAN class=656375312-06092011> </SPAN>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011>> </SPAN>surprised if it turned out that the
majority of transhumanists identified as strong religious believers. I am aware
of a number of transhumanists with <SPAN
class=656375312-06092011> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011>> </SPAN>religious beliefs of one type of
another, but I've always been under the distinct impression that they are
definitely in the minority.<SPAN
class=656375312-06092011> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=656375312-06092011>Just because
someone may not be a militant atheist does not make him a religious believer.
And, in my view, it counters the striving more for intelligence and humanness
(transhumane). Intelligence does not equate to pursuing and creating
adversity, but to finding solutions to
problems. </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><FONT size=2><BR><FONT face=Arial></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011> > </SPAN>As for the thrust of the piece
(obviously I had a long day yesterday, not spotting that!) - well, I suppose
that's why I wondered if it was a controversial <SPAN
class=656375312-06092011> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011>> </SPAN>idea. <SPAN
class=656375312-06092011> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011>It's an interesting idea. I am not a
techno-Gnostic. <FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011>I am a design-Gnostic interested in
design-gnosis. I think that design is the solution to just about
everything. I don't think technology is god or the answer to human
problems. It is an element in overcoming odds and a tool for innovating
solutions, but it is how we use the tools that will make a difference, not the
tool itself. Design uses technology, but is not exclusively dependent on
technology. </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011></SPAN></FONT></FONT>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011>> </SPAN>I knew it certainly was ten years ago
(when a number of articles mentioning the Matrix implied such an idea - that
transhumanists are <SPAN
class=656375312-06092011> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011>> </SPAN>body-hating neo-Gnostics - and Erik
Davis explicitly made the point in a sustained attack on Extropianism in his
book "TechGnosis"). The motivation <SPAN
class=656375312-06092011> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011>> </SPAN>to write the piece came from thinking
that rather than being defensive in the face of such claims, perhaps
transhumanists might use the parallel<SPAN
class=656375312-06092011> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011>> </SPAN> (however flawed or inaccurate it may
be) to our own advantage.<SPAN
class=656375312-06092011> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011>Davis highlighted the extropian use of the body and
interest in health and fitness and makes fun of the extropic interest in body
building, nutrition, etc.. What is amusing is that he predates the
postmodernist argument against transhumanism is that the transhumanist "hates"
the body. Nevertheless, Davis was one of the first journalists to garnish
a style based on hyperbole. Others followed. It was not based on a
McLuhanist media is the message, but hyperbole as the activator for a
interpretive message, whether it was true or not. It was the style of the
times and Jerry Springer and reality TV is part of this vein. Davis' more recent
work: <EM>Nomad Codes: Adventures in Modern Esoterica</EM> (2010): he does
not mention extropy or transhuman, but he does, however, us phrases such as
"techno-freak" and mentions Burning Man. The red thread in Davis' work is
religion, spirituality, symbols and myth from a cyberpunk perspective, which may
be more punking us than about the field of
cybernetics.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011>I didn't realize you wrote this blog article. I
thought you were just brining it to our attention. If I knew that you
wrote it, I would have been more considerate in my response and I apologize for
this. </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=656375312-06092011></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><SPAN class=656375312-06092011><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Natasha</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<DIV align=left>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal align=left><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><A
href="http://www.natasha.cc/"><SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext">Natasha
Vita-More</SPAN></A></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Chair,<A
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</SPAN><SPAN
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style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><BR>PhD
Researcher, <SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Univ.
of Plymouth, UK</SPAN></SPAN></P>
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<EM>The Transhumanist Reader</EM></SPAN></SPAN></P></DIV>
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