<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:14pt"><div><span>Large up front expenses, high operating and <span id="misspell-0"><span>maintenance</span></span> costs, short life cycle,</span></div><div><span>and/or reduced availability [lower standard of living] is why <span id="misspell-0"><span id="misspell-0">DIY</span></span> energy has only</span></div><div><span>worked in niche markets. Not every household is going to have an engineer</span></div><div><span>and maintenance man available to take care of such systems. If <span id="misspell-1">DIY</span> energy</span></div><div><span>becomes available through the free market <span id="misspell-2">that's</span> fine. If it requires continual</span></div><div><span>taxpayer input it is nothing but a wealth redistribution program in disguise.</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>I have done small
<span id="misspell-3">DIY</span> home energy projects - 12 volt lighting, LED lighting,</span></div><div><span>wood heat, wood heated hot water, minor wind mill experiments, and a few</span></div><div><span>local water wells. <span id="misspell-4">DIY</span> will not work for the vast majority of people - diverting</span></div><div><span>resources assuming it will - will only lead to major economic disruptions and</span></div><div><span>severe lowering of the standard of living for many. There is a reason why</span></div><div><span>central power and water distribution occurred. A local cemetary [Cox] has</span></div><div><span>a number of childen buried who died from well water contamination issues.</span></div><div><span>Local and DIY was my father's generation here in NE Missouri and they</span></div><div><span>had a very low standard of living compared to now.</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Dennis
May</span></div><div><br></div><div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 14pt;"><div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font size="2" face="Arial"><div style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" class="hr" contentEditable="false" readonly="true"></div><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> "artillo@gmail.com" <artillo@gmail.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> ExI chat list <extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, September 21, 2011 7:59 AM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [ExI] millionaires and billionaires<br></font><br><span id="misspell-3"><span id="misspell-3"><span id="misspell-7">BillK</span></span></span> said: <br>"<span id="misspell-4"><span
id="misspell-4"><span id="misspell-8">DIY</span></span></span> energy supplies and zero footprint living is the way to go for the general population. But it probably means a big drop in living standards."<br><br>I agree we do need to go towards <span id="misspell-5"><span id="misspell-5"><span id="misspell-9">DIY</span></span></span> energy but I don't think it will mean a big drop in living standards. I think if it is done properly it will actually mean a huge improvement in a good portion of the population's living standards, especially the extremely poor. Not having to worry about paying the electric bill vs. buying food for your children in the dead of Winter would be a basic example of this.<br><br>The question then becomes, HOW do we get people on board with this idea? How can it be implemented in such a way as to produce a change in mentality from the way previous generations did it? The first answer that comes to my mind is to show them <span
id="misspell-6"><span id="misspell-6"><span id="misspell-10">proven</span></span></span> example after <span id="misspell-7"><span id="misspell-7"><span id="misspell-11">proven</span></span></span> example and spread the word as best we can with all means available to us. <br><br>Let's face it, the vast majority of the population is hopelessly ignorant and too lazy to look things up for themselves, so it will initially have to be spoon-fed to them until they develop a taste for it. Look how long it took us to even start the "green" movement (which has origins back to at least the 60's!).<br><br>Sent from my Verizon Wireless <span id="misspell-8"><span id="misspell-8"><span id="misspell-12">BlackBerry</span></span></span><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <span id="misspell-9"><span id="misspell-9"><span id="misspell-13">BillK</span></span></span> <<a href="mailto:pharos@gmail.com"
ymailto="mailto:pharos@gmail.com">pharos@gmail.com</a>><br>Sender: <a href="mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.orgDate" ymailto="mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.orgDate">extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.orgDate</a>: Sat, 17 <span id="misspell-10"><span id="misspell-10"><span id="misspell-14">Sep</span></span></span> 2011 10:06:54 <br>To: ExI chat list<<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" ymailto="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>Reply-To: ExI chat list <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" ymailto="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>Subject: Re: [ExI] millionaires and billionaires<br><br>2011/9/17 Dennis May wrote:<br>> You meet millionaires all the time and likely don't know it.<br>> I can't say I've ever met a billionaire. I think the extent of the<br>> rich I've ever been around is in the under
50 million range.<br>> Most millionaires are not cocky about their money. Most<br>> people who act cocky about money are immature and<br>> likely wannabes in debt.<br>><br><br><br>Agreed. Millionaires are not considered really rich these days.<br>Especially if you include property and pension funds and other assets<br>not readily available for spending. And yes, most ordinary<br>millionaires are just like the people next door. (Us ordinary<br>millionaires must stick together, after all). ;)<br><br>I was referring to people whose annual *income* is in the billions,<br>never mind their total assets. These people don't even think about the<br>cost of something. They just do it, because price doesn't matter to<br>them. And these people own and run companies who also work on their<br>behalf. They don't even need to use their own money when a company can<br>hire lawyers and mercenaries to do their bidding. But to maintain
this<br>lifestyle, they end up doing what benefits the corporation as well as<br>themselves, rather than looking at what the longer term future<br>demands. This has led to the current economic problems. Which is still<br>working to benefit the companies that caused the problems.<br>(But I suppose there must be some nice guys in there as well. All<br><span id="misspell-14"><span id="misspell-14"><span id="misspell-18">generalisations</span></span></span> have exceptions. Not all lawyers or parking officials<br>are totally evil).<br><br>But even the coal and oil corporations are slowly diversifying into<br>renewable resources. The problem that society has is that they are<br>deliberately diversifying slowly, so as to extract the maximum profit<br>from dwindling resources. And as the oil price increases, that means<br>that high price expectations mean that they can charge more for the<br>renewable energy replacements that they will provide. Energy
will<br>still be available. It will just be very expensive when coming from<br>the grid. (Not a problem for the super-rich, of course).<br><br><span id="misspell-15"><span id="misspell-15"><span id="misspell-19">DIY</span></span></span> energy supplies and zero footprint living is the way to go for the<br>general population. But it probably means a big drop in living<br>standards.<br><br><br><span id="misspell-16"><span id="misspell-16"><span id="misspell-20">BillK</span></span></span><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>extropy-chat mailing list<br><a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" ymailto="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat" target="_blank">http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>extropy-chat mailing list<br><a
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