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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Kasey Anderson<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 09, 2012 1:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> ExI chat list<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] super soldier ants<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>Dang it, I've been deemed sane? That puts a real dent in my reputation. :D<span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hey, it happens to all of us eventually.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>I'm not saying setting giant ants on slugs wouldn't be fun to try<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I tried it already. More on that below.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span> You provide an interesting perspective on the idea that slugs wouldn't be able to adapt to the ants with a goo layer<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>On closer inspection of an actual slug, I was wrong in my initial assumption. The spotted garden slug is not defended by any kind of ant-B-gon goo layer. Read on please.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span> However, it doesn't necessarily mean that nature won't find another way around the problem<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I think so. Read on.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span> One possible adaptation, for instance, is that the slugs would simply become bigger over time, making it more difficult for the ants to prey on them<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Nein, me lass. As the slug increases in scale, the volume of tissue increases as the cube, but the critical surface area increases as the square. So a Jaba the Hutt sized slug would be impossible: he couldn’t breath. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span> This however might slow the slugs down as well<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Ja. When you think about it, you don’t see any skin breathers ever get really big. Dragon flies can get huge, but their actual mass is relatively small. When you get much bigger than a banana slug, some other respiration mechanism is called for, such as lungs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span> Without experimentation, however, it'd be really impossible to tell<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Being able to create enormous slugs would be cool. Perhaps we could figure out how to make them carnivorous, and prey on the other slugs? That would make for a delightfully revolting.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>Providing nothing really horrifying happened during testing<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Heck those are the most fun experiments. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span> we've been using antibiotics for years and they have most assuredly proved useful despite the fact that bacteria are finding ways to resist our solutions<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Ja, but actually we are talking about two different things. Slugs have a life cycle in months, whereas bacteria lifecycle is in tens of hours.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>I do wonder with the whole earthworm issue whether there are species of ants that eat slugs and not earthworms, though. It seems like the researchers' genetic manipulation is widespread to a large variety of ants. Maybe we should write them a letter and ask them what they'd recommend. ;)<span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Here’s what I did. I know that ants will devour earthworms, at least under some special conditions. I am not sure I understand those conditions. But I did find a slug this morning and put it next to the ants. They didn’t seem to even notice it was there. They made no attempt to devour the sluggish beast. During that experiment I observed that I was mistaken about the slug being protected by a goo layer. It isn’t. There is some other mechanism at play here.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>More later,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>spike<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>