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    Extropians,<br>
    <br>
    There seems to already be an emerging expert consensus theory that
    predicts exactly how to define this stuff and how science is about
    to prove such is true - which if such does occur, as being
    predicted, it will obviously prove to everyone that they are right,
    and what consciousness is.<br>
    <br>
    At least there is a clear consensus, till you get down to the
    difference between "Functional Property Dualism" (Chalmers'
    "subjective" camp where a quale like redness is correlated with the
    right function, whether it is neurons or silicon see:
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/88/8">http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/88/8</a>) vs "Material Property Dualism",
    more of an "essentialist" camp that predicts without the right
    stuff, in the right state, no redness quale is possible.  (see:
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/88/7">http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/88/7</a> )  Obviously both of these are
    very testable theories for which it is only a matter of time till
    they demonstrate which one is THE ONE.<br>
    <br>
    My money is with the consensus and the Materialst view.  What about
    you?  Any other view?<br>
    <br>
    Brent Allsop<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    On 5/26/2012 5:04 PM, Will Steinberg wrote:
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAKrqSyH4DAxRueCCQhsFonVhXoXCMJY7-tGzyiuiztBURYTPCA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">This guy gets it!<br>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Stefano
        Vaj <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:stefano.vaj@gmail.com" target="_blank">stefano.vaj@gmail.com</a>></span>
        wrote:<br>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div class="im">On 26 May 2012 00:09, Will Steinberg <span
                dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:steinberg.will@gmail.com" target="_blank">steinberg.will@gmail.com</a>></span>
              wrote:<br>
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                <p>Yes, I think consciousness needs redefinition
                  somehow.  </p>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
            <div>It need not really be a "subjective" or "essentialist"
              consciousness definition, OTOH. <br>
              <br>
              Let us just say that a universe where an increasing
              presence exists of entities exhibiting behaviours making
              it easy to hallucinate our internal states on them is
              aesthetically more pleasant in cosmic terms for most of
              us. :-)<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
                   </font></span></div>
          </div>
          <span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">-- <br>
              Stefano Vaj<br>
            </font></span><br>
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