<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
<br>
Hi David,<br>
<br>
I completely agree with you, that we need more energy, and more
believers, or converts, if you will. We can't do anything,
alone. The bottom line is, many people have mistaken working
hypothosis, so are pushing in the wrong direction, or failing to
push in the right direction. It's simply a matter of they lack
proper moral knowledge, and are thereby not choosing what they
really want.<br>
<br>
Most cryonicists think the arguments that converted them, will
convert everyone else, and spout mostly just that. I think that
is another big problem, as everyone is very different. You've got
to fully understand and work within the current beliefs of others,
before you can hope to help them see something better.<br>
<br>
Also, in my opinion, I think you are grossly mistaken, and wasting
significant amounts on any efforts towards "reversal of aging",
which will basically get us nothing. (i.e. we'll still have
accidents that will kill us, and all the other problems that go
along with having a primitive dumb minimalistic brain, even if it
doesn't age.)<br>
<br>
We simply need to discover what consciousness is, and then
duplicate it, and copy it trillians of times - solving ALL of our
problems, not just curing some trivial aging problem of some soon
to be very outdated and primitive platform we're all about to
completely abandon. Any work spent on that is a complete immoral
waist of time, in my opinion.<br>
<br>
Again, in my opinion, your mistaken beliefs are killing us, and
many others, because it causes you to waste time on the wrong
thing.<br>
<br>
The bottom line is, we've got to amplify the moral intelligence
and wisdom of everyone (maybe I'm morally mistaken also?), so
everyone can intelligently make the right choices.<br>
<br>
And the best way to do that is first, find out what everyone
currently does believe, and value, and why. Then you need to give
everyone the ability to survey their chosen experts, to see what
they say we should do (experts, no matter who, will always be more
intelligent than lay populations.) And we need to measure for
what people believe, and know why, so we can better convert them,
from within their reference, or set of values. In other words, we
need to provide a way for all the experts to measure for how well
their arguments are working, or not, and find out what it would
take to convert people to better behavior, using their current
values, not ours, sooner, and focus on getting that.<br>
<br>
In other words, everything we're trying to do at canonizer.com.<br>
<br>
By the way, check out the new "Amplifying the Wisdom of the
Crowd: Building, and Measuring for Expert and Moral Consensus"
paper by James Carol, linked to on the front page of
Canaonizer.com.<br>
<br>
It's all about knowing, concisely and quantitatively, what
everyone else wants. And measuring that, so it can improve.
If the experts can measure all that, concisely and quantitatively,
for everyone, then improving it and eventually getting it all,
for and with everyone will be trivial.<br>
<br>
As long as people believe they want to die, or never age in some
primitive platform, that's where we'll continue to be heading. I
know what it will take to convince me, I'm already converted. The
question is, what do you currently believe, and what will it take
to convert you, and everyone else, or visa versa?<br>
<br>
Brent Allsop<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 8/6/2012 5:35 PM, david pizer wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1344296113.24197.YahooMailNeo@web161704.mail.bf1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<span style="display:none"> </span>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="position:relative;">
<div id="ygrp-msg" style="z-index: 1;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-text">
<div
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:times
new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:14pt;">
<div>Developing the <span id="lw_1344295840_0"
class="yshortcuts cs4-visible">technology</span> to
allow the reversal of aging to <span
id="yiv1629063999misspell-0"><span>permit</span></span>
virtual physical immortality is the <u>ultimate goal</u>
of most <span id="yiv1629063999misspell-1"><span
id="yiv1629063999misspell-0"
class="yiv1629063999mark">cryonicists</span></span>.</div>
<div>Many of us believe that technology may be within the
laws of physics but it may be centuries before we humans
control that technology.</div>
<div> </div>
<div><u>So the next best thing</u> would be to create <span
id="lw_1344295840_1" class="yshortcuts cs4-visible">cryopreservation</span>
technology now that would allow patients to be prepared
so well (at legal death) that doctors in the future can
revive them. Most of us believe that advanced
cryopreservation technology is possible but that we are
not there now. You and I may suffer legal death before
that advanced cryopreservation technology is perfected.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><u>So the logical question should be</u> - How can we
speed up the development of reversible suspended
animation technology now?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The answer is that we need more resources. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>To get more resources faster we need to convince more
people that cryopreservation is possible and encourage
them to want to make it happen and to join with us now.
It is through more membership that more resources will
become available. Larger membership is the key to faster
development of technology. More members means more
money, more volunteer labor, more public <span
id="yiv1629063999misspell-5"><span>acceptance</span></span>.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So for those people who are reading this and who want
to increase their odds of surviving death you need to
ask yourself if you are doing everything you can to
bring more resources to the cryopreservation movement? </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I would like to see some meaningful discussion on
what other cryoncists are doing to help us reach our
goals and what you think we should be doing now that we
are not doing now.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>David Pizer</div>
<div> </div>
<div> <var id="yui-ie-cursor"></var></div>
</div>
</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<div style="color: #fff; height: 0;">__._,_.___</div>
<div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px;
white-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;">
<div> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pizerdavid@yahoo.com?subject=Re%3A%20We%20need%20some%20new%20energy%21"
style="margin-right: 0; padding-right: 0;"> Reply to <span
style="font-weight: 700;">sender</span></a> | <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:universalimmortalism@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20We%20need%20some%20new%20energy%21">
Reply to <span style="font-weight: 700;">group</span></a>
| <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/universalimmortalism/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxOWYzcXBjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjMzNTcxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA3Mzg1OQRtc2dJZAMyMzU2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM0NDI5NjExOA--?act=reply&messageNum=2356">Reply
<span style="font-weight: 700;">via web post</span></a>
| <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/universalimmortalism/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmajgwNmphBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjMzNTcxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA3Mzg1OQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNDQyOTYxMTg-"
style="font-weight: 700;">Start a New Topic</a> </div>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/universalimmortalism/message/2356;_ylc=X3oDMTM1c2QwMDViBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjMzNTcxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA3Mzg1OQRtc2dJZAMyMzU2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM0NDI5NjExOAR0cGNJZAMyMzU2">Messages
in this topic</a> (<span style="font-weight: 700;">1</span>)
</div>
<!------- Start Nav Bar ------>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-vital" style="background-color: #e0ecee;
font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px;
padding: 10px;"> <span id="vithd" style="font-weight: bold;
color: #333; text-transform: uppercase; ">Recent Activity:</span>
<ul style="list-style-type: none; margin: 0; padding: 0;
display: inline;">
</ul>
<div style="clear: both; padding-top: 2px; color: #1e66ae;">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/universalimmortalism;_ylc=X3oDMTJmaXJuaGZiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjMzNTcxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA3Mzg1OQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNDQyOTYxMTg-"
style="text-decoration: none;">Visit Your Group</a> </div>
</div>
<div id="ygrp-grfd" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size:
12px; padding: 15px 0;">
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> --<br>
Society for Universal Immortalism discussion mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.universalimmortalism.org/">http://www.universalimmortalism.org/</a>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> </div>
<div id="ft" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 11px;
margin-top: 5px; padding: 0 2px 0 0; clear: both;"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYWY3N2c5BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzEwMjMzNTcxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA3Mzg1OQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM0NDI5NjExOA--"
style="float: left;"><img moz-do-not-send="true"
src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/yg/logo/us.gif"
alt="Yahoo! Groups" style="border: 0;" height="15"
width="137"></a>
<div style="color: #747575; float: right;">Switch to: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:universalimmortalism-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change%20Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional"
style="text-decoration: none;">Text-Only</a>, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:universalimmortalism-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email%20Delivery:%20Digest"
class="margin-rt" style="text-decoration: none;">Daily
Digest</a> • <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:universalimmortalism-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"
style="text-decoration: none;">Unsubscribe</a> • <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"
style="text-decoration: none;">Terms of Use</a></div>
</div>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> </div>
<!-- ygrp-msg -->
<!-- Sponsor -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-sponsor" style="width:160px; float:right;
clear:none; margin:0 0 25px 0; background: #fff;">
<!-- Start Recommendations -->
<div id="ygrp-reco"> </div>
<!-- End Recommendations --> </div>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div style="clear:both; color: #FFF; font-size:1px;">.</div>
</div>
<img moz-do-not-send="true"
src="imap://brent%2Eallsop%40gmail%2Ecom@imap.googlemail.com:993/fetch%3EUID%3E/%5BGmail%5D/Drafts%3E6246?s=97359714/grpId=10233571/grpspId=1705073859/msgId=2356/stime=1344296118/nc1=3848627/nc2=5758222/nc3=5191952"
height="1" width="1"> <br>
<div style="color: #fff; height: 0;">__,_._,___</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mkp {
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
font-family: Arial;
margin: 10px 0;
padding: 0 10px;
}
#ygrp-mkp hr {
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
}
#ygrp-mkp #hd {
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 85%;
font-weight: 700;
line-height: 122%;
margin: 10px 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp #ads {
margin-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad {
padding: 0 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad p {
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad a {
color: #0000ff;
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc {
font-family: Arial;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd {
margin: 10px 0px;
font-weight: 700;
font-size: 78%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad {
margin-bottom: 10px;
padding: 0 0;
}
a {
color: #1e66ae;
}
#actions {
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 11px;
padding: 10px 0;
}
#activity {
background-color: #e0ecee;
float: left;
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 10px;
padding: 10px;
}
#activity span {
font-weight: 700;
}
#activity span:first-child {
text-transform: uppercase;
}
#activity span a {
color: #5085b6;
text-decoration: none;
}
#activity span span {
color: #ff7900;
}
#activity span .underline {
text-decoration: underline;
}
.attach {
clear: both;
display: table;
font-family: Arial;
font-size: 12px;
padding: 10px 0;
width: 400px;
}
.attach div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
.attach img {
border: none;
padding-right: 5px;
}
.attach label {
display: block;
margin-bottom: 5px;
}
.attach label a {
text-decoration: none;
}
blockquote {
margin: 0 0 0 4px;
}
.bold {
font-family: Arial;
font-size: 13px;
font-weight: 700;
}
.bold a {
text-decoration: none;
}
dd.last p a {
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: 700;
}
dd.last p span {
margin-right: 10px;
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: 700;
}
dd.last p span.yshortcuts {
margin-right: 0;
}
div.attach-table div div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.attach-table {
width: 400px;
}
div.file-title a, div.file-title a:active, div.file-title a:hover, div.file-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.photo-title a, div.photo-title a:active, div.photo-title a:hover, div.photo-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}
div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts {
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 10px;
font-weight: normal;
}
.green {
color: #628c2a;
}
.MsoNormal {
margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
o {
font-size: 0;
}
#photos div {
float: left;
width: 72px;
}
#photos div div {
border: 1px solid #666666;
height: 62px;
overflow: hidden;
width: 62px;
}
#photos div label {
color: #666666;
font-size: 10px;
overflow: hidden;
text-align: center;
white-space: nowrap;
width: 64px;
}
#reco-category {
font-size: 77%;
}
#reco-desc {
font-size: 77%;
}
.replbq {
margin: 4px;
}
#ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {
/* border-right: 0px solid #000;*/
margin-right: 2px;
padding-right: 5px;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg {
font-size: 13px;
font-family: Arial, helvetica,clean, sans-serif;
*font-size: small;
*font: x-small;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {
font-size: inherit;
font: 100%;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {
font: 99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {
font:115% monospace;
*font-size:100%;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {
line-height: 1.22em;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo {
padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg a {
color: #1E66AE;
}
#ygrp-msg p a {
font-family: Verdana;
}
#ygrp-msg p#attach-count span {
color: #1E66AE;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco #reco-head {
color: #ff7900;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a {
font-size: 130%;
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li {
font-size: 77%;
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul {
margin: 0;
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-text {
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p {
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt {
font-size: 120%;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
border-right: none !important;
}
-->
</style>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
<!-- end group email -->
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>