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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dan<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, December 23, 2012 3:51 PM<br><b>To:</b> ExI chat list<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] eroei forward for kennedy, p.e.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>On Sunday, December 23, 2012 3:15 PM Jeff Davis <<a href="mailto:jrd1415@gmail.com">jrd1415@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>></span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>>…</span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> It's all a load of politicized baloney being exploited by the<br>> aforementioned scaremongers (and others) for the benefit of<br>> their own bottom line.<br><br></span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>>…</span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I don't believe every last person pushing the doom and gloom line here has a pecuniary interest or that merely money grabbing motivates them. </span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>…</span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Dan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Or another case: money grabbing motives them (as it does me) but not in this particular case. Money grabbing always motivates me, I love the stuff. Money is good, the more the better. I will grab any that is grabbable. Grable?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>However, in this particular case, what I am really doing is imagining a long term future in the event that the singularity doesn’t occur, that there is a still-unknown reason why it cannot, in the form in which it has commonly been envisioned. This is a possibility, do think it over. Then what if all our thorium plants and so forth never come to fruition, by completely foreseeable reasons: they are crushed dead by political forces which turn out to be greater obstacles than technical ones.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Then, over the long haul, oil reserves will dwindle, even if we drill baby drill. Eventually that wonderful resource does decline, even with optimistic assumptions. The oil shale lasts a long time, but not forever. Even for those of us who do not believe CO2 is a primary driver in global warming, we acknowledge that it is a contributor, and that eventually global warming is actually a bad thing, even if not at first. Oil shale dumps enormous amounts of CO2 for the amount of energy it extracts and delivers. Space based solar might work out, but it might not.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>After all that is taken into account, ground-based solar for all its shortcomings and expense looks to me like a long term major contributor. Wind powered biomass to liquid fuels will be a big contributor. Finding some alternate means of converting biomass to food will be a huge contributor. Reducing the absurd level of energy waste looks to me like the greatest contributor. All these solutions are scalable and require little if any government intervention.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>spike<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>