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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><font color="black" face="arial" size="2">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Anders Sandberg <anders@aleph.se><br>
Sent: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 18:22</font><br>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_2_946890b0-61e5-478c-8435-878f29a0cc86"><font color="black" face="arial" size="2"><br>
>You can also have analogies. In my upcoming paper on upload ethics I
argue that emulations of animals >should be treated as if they had
the same moral standing as the animal unless we can prove that the
>emulation lack the relevant properties for having moral patienthood.
But this is because they are analogous >to the original. If the AI is
something unique we have a harder time figuring out its moral
status.<br>
<br>
<font size="2">Similarly <font size="2">w</font>hat of <font size="2">the</font> moral status of an incomplete or deficientl<font size="2">e</font>y uploaded human<font size="2">,</font> <font size="2">d</font>o we afford them equal rights<font size="2"> to the original?<font size="2"> Personally I am tempted to put them in <font size="2">the</font> same unknown <font size="2">moral category</font> as AI.</font></font></font><br>
</font><br>
<font size="2">></font>Legal persons are however not moral persons. Nobody says that it is
wrong for the government to dissolve <font size="2">></font>or split a company, despite the
misgivings we have about capital punishment. Same thing for legal
rights: <font size="2">></font>ideally they should track moral rights, but it is a bit
random.<br>
<br>
<font size="2">Agreed. </font><br>
<br>
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<div id="AOLMsgPart_2_a9dbf806-1be4-4ba9-9661-07d4f81dd8d4">
<font size="2">>>It would<font size="2">n't be the same as givi<font size="2">ng it human rights as companies still don't
have such rights<font size="2">, but in many >>places they
can vote.</font></font></font></font></div>
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</blockquote>
<font size="2">></font>Where else but the City of London?<br>
<br>
<font size="2"><font size="2">I </font>was under the impression t<font size="2">hat </font>corporations had limited voting rights in <font size="2">some<font size="2"> places in the US? Perhaps <font size="2">a misremembering or misinterpretation on my part.</font></font></font> In any case its interesting that a right so dearly held such as voting can be given to a non living thing. Whi<font size="2">le that thing lacks other basic human rights.</font></font><br>
<br>
<br>
<font size="2">></font>This is a real problem. If there is nothing like punishment, there
might not be any real moral learning. You <font size="2">></font>can have a learning
machine that gets negative reinforcement and *behaves* right due to
this, but it is just <font size="2">></font>like a trained animal. The interesting thing is
that the negative reinforcement doesn't have to be a <font size="2">></font>punishment by<font size="2"> </font>our standards, just an error signal.<br>
<br>
<font size="2">Perhaps. <font size="2">I personally have <font size="2">"Brain Hurt" with this area. I can only equate it to the issue of needing to replicat<font size="2">e</font> the Human chemistry</font></font> in uploads<font size="2"> or all our <font size="2">e</font>rror signals<font size="2"> such as pain, remorse, jealousy will be lost. T<font size="2">o</font> me I cant help but think a simple error signal to a machine is as meaningless as showing a red card to a sportsman who doesn't know what it <font size="2">me<font size="2">ans</font></font>. It is only a symbol, the actual punishment only comes from the chemistr<font size="2">y it evokes. </font></font></font>If we give a machine a symbol of pain, t<font size="2">hat really won't cut it imho. </font></font><br>
<font size="2">In the same way that if I were <font size="2">immortal</font> and jumped off a building, seeing you hand me a piece of card that says "broken legs" isnt going to stop me walking away. LOL. Even if I do know the rules of t<font size="2">he game.</font><br>
<font size="2"><font size="2">I</font>ts a tough one</font></font><font size="2">. I th<font size="2">in<font size="2">k it would depend on what the <font size="2">currency</font> of <font size="2">the</font> machine is (in Dr Phil speak), what the machine holds as valuable. <font size="2">Then using that as <font size="2">leverage</font> for good <font size="2">behavior</font>.<br>
<font size="2">"Bad machine!.....no data for you!"</font></font></font></font></font><br>
<br>
<font size="2">></font>Moral proxies can also misbehave: I tell my device to do A, but it
does B. This can be because I failed at <font size="2">></font>programming it properly, but
it can also be because I did not foresee the consequences of my
instructions. >Or the interaction between the instructions and the
environment. My responsibility is 1) due to how much <font size="2">></font>causal control
I have over the consequences, and 2) how much I allow consequences
to ensue outside my <font size="2">></font>causal control. <br>
<br>
<font size="2">A problem that already exists. I have wondered about t<font size="2">he implications of automatic parking available in some cars. Should you engage this parking system and your car <font size="2">*decides* to prang the parke<font size="2">d vehicle in front, who is responsible? The car for a bad judgement, You for not applying the breaks, <font size="2">the engineer who designed the physical mechanisms, the software developer or the salesman who told you it w<font size="2">as <font size="2">infallible</font>?</font></font></font></font></font></font><br>
<font size="2">I thi<font size="2">nk as such autonomous systems evolve there should and hopefully will be a <font size="2">corresponding</font> evolution of law brought about by <font size="2">liability</font> suits</font>. Im not aware of any yet, but im 100% sure they will appear i<font size="2">f they <font size="2">haven't already</font>. Perhaps the stakes are not yet high enough with simple parking mishaps, but when t<font size="2">he first <font size="2">self driving car ploughs through a bus stop full of Nuns, <font size="2">the</font> la<font size="2">wyers will no doubt wrestle it out for us.</font></font></font> </font></font><tt><br>
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