<div dir="ltr">On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 5:31 PM, Brent Allsop <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:brent.allsop@canonizer.com" target="_blank">brent.allsop@canonizer.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">
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Hi Kelly,<br>
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Yes, definitely progress. I would just provide some advice, in
that I think you are getting side tracked on lots of irrelevant
complex things that are leading you away from the simplicity that
is important here.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>There is nothing simple about this sort of thing, but I do find that I often get side tracked.</div><div style> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Just think of an idealized world where strawberries only reflect
650 NM light, which can easily be represented with a 1 (what we
intend on picking), and leaves only reflect 700 NM light, which
can easily represent with a 0 (what we don't want). And only
think of one redness quality and one greenness quality that we
both agree is the middle of the road for both.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>Ok.</div><div style> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Also, we're talking about elemental qualities. Some people think
a single quale, is the entire supper complex emotional experience
they have of life, and so they say my quale could not be felt by
you, without you becoming me. Of course THAT is true, but these
experiences are built up out of, or painted with, elemental
qualities that include the combination of simple elemental
redness, a warmth feeling, our memories of everything to do with
red, like blood. The phenomenal knowledge of us perceiving this
red, the phenomenal emotion, and so on. All of this phenomenal
knowledge is simply lots of elemental qualities our brain uses to
'paint' our conscious knowledge with. And surely we will be able
to 'eff' if you will, the qualitative elemental nature, to each
other, and know if you are using my greenness, to represent the
strawberry with, or if you are using some other phenomenal quality
I have never experienced before in my life.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>Ok.</div><div style> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Also, you're starting to think sloppily when you say things like:<div class="im"><br>
<<<<br>
I can have a symbol "red" in a database, and if that is the result
of a query issued by that camera device, then that recognition of
red is no different than what happens from the query in my brain
that comes up with the symbol "red".<br>
>>><br></div></div></div></blockquote><div style><br></div><div style>If you say so.</div><div style> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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All of that is the intermediate stuff, like the light, the eye,
and everything. They are all just random stuff, for which, if you
interpret it to be 'red' that is what you have. But without that
interpretation, the light is just light, the +5 volts is just
that, and nothing like a redness quality, or the property of the
surface of the strawberry, it is being interpreted as
representing. The only thing that makes such abstract 'red'
substrate independent, is the fact that there is a consistent
hardware layer doing the interpretation, from whatever physical
media you are using to represent it. All that intermediate stuff
can be thought of as 'red', but findamentally, none of it is
anything fundamentally like the initial cause nor the final result
of that perception of red process.<br>
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Are we still on the same page?<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br></font></span></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>I suppose, but I still don't know where you are trying to drive this bus. There is a quality that is fundamental, that we agree on. Not sure why a machine cannot also detect such a fundamental quality, but I'm listening.</div>
<div> </div><div>-Kelly</div><div><br><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div><div><div class="h5"><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>