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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Gordon<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 24, 2013 9:51 PM<br><b>To:</b> ExI chat list<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] Digital Consciousness .<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>spike,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>></span><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span><span style='color:black'> A chess program is not conscious, but it creates some gooooorgeous combinations that feel like an iron fist reached out of the computer and grabbed you by the ass. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span><span style='color:black'>I understand exactly what you mean, spike. Chess programs seem like they know exactly what they are doing. They are masters of the game. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span><span style='color:black'>But in reality they are like my watch. My watch tells me the time accurately, but I'm pretty sure it has no idea what the time is.</span><span style='color:#1F497D'> –</span><span style='color:black'>Gordon</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Gordon this has been a valuable and insightful thread, and I am glad you came back. What it has really made me think about is that bifurcation I mentioned yesterday: a perfectly acceptable AI could arise without consciousness. We tend to think intelligence requires self-awareness but I now think it does not, or rather the kind of intelligence I am interested in. The chess program does what we want it to do, actually better than we want it to do it, but it doesn’t know how to play chess exactly. It plays better than we do, but it still doesn’t know how to play in the human sense. It is just shuffling a bunch of bits.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Now that goes down another interesting road. Consider the common internet trope which you have likely received at some time in the last few years. It goes something like this. A woman is at the funeral for her mother. She meets a man there she has never seen, speaks to him briefly, falls in love instantly, but he is gone before she gets his name or number. A week later she kills her sister. Why did she do that?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This is one of those which stumped me. I never did get it until I read the punch line provided, which actually ties into this discussion. OK, so did anyone here figure out why funeral girl slew her sister? Do you want more time?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So we should think about what kinds of intelligences could arise without humanlike emotions and without consciousness. After reading the thread, I think you may be right: a computer could be made to be highly intelligent and to simulate human-like emotions and still not have them. But it might be perfectly acceptable that they don’t, as illustrated by funeral-girl.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Answer: the reason she slew her sister is that she hoped mystery-man would show up at the funeral.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If anyone figured it out easily and to whom that answer seems perfectly logical, please post me so I can put your ass on moderation forthwith, you scare me.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Can we imagine an AGI which would propose this solution to funeral-girl? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>spike<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>