<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Had been a CO2 measurable greenhouse effect, the mornings in Riyadh and other dry places, where water vapor does not interfere too much ... those morning should be warmer than they used to be.<br>
<br></div>But they aren't, At least nobody reports that. Or in the Death Valley. Where the sole GHG is CO2, there should be warmer mornings nowdays. A good ground for new temperature records, which are all old.<br><br>
</div>Science isn't settled. ;)<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 6:53 AM, Adrian Tymes <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:atymes@gmail.com" target="_blank">atymes@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>The total amount of heat coming in & going out<br>dwarfs the total amount blocked by CO2. In the<br>
blanket analogy, imagine if each blanket was<br>incredibly thin, say 1/100th or less of an<br>
ordinary blanket. Doubling the blankets, moth<br>eaten or not, will make a substantial difference.</div><div><br></div>Further, the bed underneath slightly changes<br>color in places in response to the temperature.<br></div>
E.g., white ice melts into darker, more<br>absorptive things. Feedback effects like this,<br></div>especially when energy normally distributed<br>across the entire Earth gets localized (such<br>as into a tornado), account for much of the<br>
problem.<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="h5">On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Kelly Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kellycoinguy@gmail.com" target="_blank">kellycoinguy@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5"><div dir="ltr"><p style="border:0px;margin:0px 0px 24px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Georgia,'Bitstream Charter',serif;font-size:16px;line-height:24px">
Could someone please comment on this analysis? It seems to make sense to me, and that kind of worries me. I keep thinking this is settled to some extent in my head.... I want to believe science is not totally screwed over by politics, I want to believe...</p>
<p style="border:0px;margin:0px 0px 24px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Georgia,'Bitstream Charter',serif;font-size:16px;line-height:24px">>>>>>>>>>>>></p>
<p style="border:0px;margin:0px 0px 24px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Georgia,'Bitstream Charter',serif;font-size:16px;line-height:24px">The misnamed “greenhouse” effect of greenhouse gasses like CO2 is based on the fact that they are not truly colorless. They have a “tint,” though we can’t see it, because it’s in a part of the light spectrum that our eyes don’t detect. GHGs are transparent in the visible part of the light spectrum, but they absorb (block) parts of the IR spectrum.</p>
<p style="border:0px;margin:0px 0px 24px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Georgia,'Bitstream Charter',serif;font-size:16px;line-height:24px">Adding such gasses to the atmosphere has a warming effect on the lower atmosphere, because the light arriving at the earth from the sun is much “bluer” (shorter average wavelength) than the light emitted from the earth. Because the earth is relatively cool, the light emitted from the earth is mostly IR. So anything in the atmosphere that blocks IR but is transparent to visible and UV will have a warming effect, because it lets in most of the arriving solar radiation (that warms the earth), but blocks a much larger percentage of the departing radiation (that cools the earth).</p>
<p style="border:0px;margin:0px 0px 24px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Georgia,'Bitstream Charter',serif;font-size:16px;line-height:24px">Even though CO2 levels are measured in parts-per-million, there’s nevertheless already so much CO2 in the atmosphere that it blocks nearly all of the IR that it can possibly block. So adding more CO2 doesn’t have much effect on temperature. For CO2′s main absorption bands, we’re way, way past the CO2 levels at which the IR is all absorbed. Only for very narrow ranges of wavelengths at the fringes of those absorption bands, where CO2 is a very weak absorber, can adding more CO2 appreciably increase the amount of IR blocked.</p>
<p style="border:0px;margin:0px 0px 24px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Georgia,'Bitstream Charter',serif;font-size:16px;line-height:24px">However, adding even a small amount of a different GHG (such as one of the CFCs or HCFCs) can have a much larger warming effect, by blocking a part of the IR spectrum for which the atmosphere would otherwise be transparent. That’s why you may read that CFCs like Freon-12 are thousands of times more potent as GHGs than CO2. It’s not that there’s anything fundamentally special about Freon-12, it’s just that there’s so few Freon-12 molecules in the atmosphere that some of their absorption bands aren’t already blocked.<br>
</p><p style="border:0px;margin:0px 0px 24px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Georgia,'Bitstream Charter',serif;font-size:16px;line-height:24px">Here’s an analogy. Consider moth-eaten blankets to be like GHGs, and different positions one the blankets correspond to different parts of the IR spectrum. The blankets have big holes in some places, but nice, dense wool fabric in others.</p>
<p style="border:0px;margin:0px 0px 24px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Georgia,'Bitstream Charter',serif;font-size:16px;line-height:24px">Different patterns of holes in the blankets are like different GHGs. They pass some parts of the IR spectrum, and block others. So “CO2″ blankets have one pattern of holes, “CH4″ blankets have a different pattern of holes, “CFC-12″ blankets have yet another pattern of holes, etc.</p>
<p style="border:0px;margin:0px 0px 24px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Georgia,'Bitstream Charter',serif;font-size:16px;line-height:24px">Now, envision an obsessively compulsive neat-freak piling on moth-eaten blankets to try to keep warm in a chilly night. He exactly straightens and lines up each blanket on the bed.</p>
<p style="border:0px;margin:0px 0px 24px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Georgia,'Bitstream Charter',serif;font-size:16px;line-height:24px">If he piles on a dozen identical “CO2″ blankets, with the holes all lining up exactly, he won’t be much warmer than if he had only one or two “CO2″ blankets. But if he adds a “CH4″ blanket, with many of its moth-holes in different places, then he’ll be a lot warmer, because some of the CO2 blanket’s holes will be blocked by the CH4 blanket, and vice-versa. And if he adds a “CFC-12″ blanket, with some of its holes in different places than the holes in the CO2 and CH4 blankets, he’ll be warmer yet.</p>
<p style="border:0px;margin:0px 0px 6px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Georgia,'Bitstream Charter',serif;font-size:16px;line-height:24px">Right now, we’ve got about 10 or 20 CO2 blankets piled on. Adding another 5 or 10 or 20 CO2 blankets will keep us a tiny bit warmer at the frayed edges of the holes, but it won’t make near as much difference as adding some other kind of blanket.</p>
<p style="border:0px;margin:0px 0px 6px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Georgia,'Bitstream Charter',serif;font-size:16px;line-height:24px"><<<<<<<<<<<</p>
<p style="border:0px;margin:0px 0px 6px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Georgia,'Bitstream Charter',serif;font-size:16px;line-height:24px">Thanks!</p><span><font color="#888888"><p style="border:0px;margin:0px 0px 6px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Georgia,'Bitstream Charter',serif;font-size:16px;line-height:24px">
-Kelly</p></font></span></div>
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