<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Clark<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 21, 2013 7:46 AM<br><b>To:</b> ExI chat list<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] bees again<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Anders Sandberg <<a href="mailto:anders@aleph.se" target="_blank">anders@aleph.se</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal>>> Another idea that is actually being worked on is to make bio-luminescent plants<span style='color:#1F497D'>…</span>a medium sized tree would be as bright as a streetlamp<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>><span style='color:#1F497D'>…</span> Hmm. <span style='color:#1F497D'>…</span> a 10x10 meter tree will have a total output in your direction of 24 Watts. The weakest street-lights reach about 18 Watts<span style='color:#1F497D'>… Anders</span> <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>You're right! I got that .02 percent figure from a New Scientist article but, as you point out, if you think about it a little it's obvious that it can't be even close to being correct. Sorry. Street lights are out, maybe decorative mood lighting?<span style='color:#1F497D'> </span>John k Clark<span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sure, but the idea isn’t totally busted. Consider that there are more trees than street lights, and furthermore we should really look at why we illuminate streets with the absurd levels of light that we currently use. I can think of two reasons: crime prevention and because we can. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Taken in reverse order, it isn’t clear to me that we will always be able to spray energy in all directions all night. We can now, but let us anticipate a future in which a larger portion of our energy needs will be met by ground based solar panels. Currently nighttime electric power is cheap because demand goes down faster than the supply can be ramped down. But if we have more of the load carried by PVs, night time power will be more expensive than daytime power. If we ease off on nighttime demand, we enable ground based solar.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Crime prevention: we have better ways to do that now. I have infrared detector cameras on my house. They can make pictures in total darkness, reflections from infrared LEDs, but the resolution is lousy. We could alternately have those systems emit a short high intensity flash when some prole comes to your door at night, or is anywhere near your Detroit for instance. These cameras are cheap, and the image storage is instant and safe on the internet, so stealing or covering the camera will not help the sleazy perp. We could use those at a fraction the cost of street lamps, which are not particularly effective in reducing crime anyway. Better than nothing I suppose, but not as good as something else. Increased use of flashing digital cameras would reduce crime, cost less and most important of all:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It would make the night skies easier to observe for the local astronomy fans.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Conclusion: if we could create trees that emit 20 watts, that might be just the ticket.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>spike<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>