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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>>I'd say reveal… You may wish to guide her through how to get the info…<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks Adrian.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Other voices please?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I can make Adrian’s case stronger, without actually saying I fully embrace it, as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This young lady did nothing wrong. She is an only child, as was her mother, so she has no known bio-first-cousins. Her step-father supplied genetically unrelated first cousins, who had little to do with her. My own first cousins, a round dozen of them, have enriched my life more than I can say: I love them all, never had a cross word with any of them, always had a good time, cried together at our grandparents funerals, laughed together often. This young lady is lonely for her own cousins, I get that. Now I come to find out there are plenty of them around: her bio-father was the youngest of five children, who were all apparently prolific. So this young lady had a definite non-zero risk of marrying or at least copulating with one of her own first cousins unbeknown, for they live in her general area. She has the right to know who they are.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>On the other hand…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I really had no justification to go off Googling like some kind of Neanderthal cyber stalker. I put myself in this mess, so really it is my damn fault. If her mother wouldn’t tell her own daughter, who the hell am I to come along and countermand that decision? I don’t know these people, have very little knowledge of our apparent common ancestor. This bio-father is actually a third cousin once removed from me, and his bio-offspring are my fourth cousins. I didn’t get their blessing in wedging my nose in their business. The potential for harm is great, and my vague intuition is that the potential harm may outweigh the benefits. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>But in any case, I am not the one who has the right to make that choice. I might go with Adrian’s suggestion in gently guiding the young lady in how to find what I found.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Before I do anything, I want to hear from Gina Nanogirl Miller, who has been there and back.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I have long been the schizophrenic-on-that-topic openness advocate. But even I realize that between Facebook, Ancestry.com and 23andMe, it is easy to imagine all manner of long dead secrets could be dug up and yanked out of their graves, with or without their consent.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I still don’t feel good about either of my choices, but I may be tipping back the other way now.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>spike<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Adrian Tymes<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 25, 2013 4:58 PM<br><b>To:</b> ExI chat list<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] 23andme again<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p>I'd say reveal. As you say, she<br>arguably had a right to it. Whether<br>or not she is capable of obtaining<br>the info on her own (and she may<br>well learn), she may have others<br>who can get it. Further, who<br>exactly would you be protecting<br>(of those entitled to said<br>protection)?<o:p></o:p></p><p>You may wish to guide her<br>through how to get the info,<br>telling her she needs to learn how<br>to do this as part of handling this<br>info responsibly. But if you do, do<br>let her know up front that the info is<br>available, and that you're being<br>roundabout only out of pure ethical<br>concerns.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Jun 25, 2013 4:22 PM, "spike" <<a href="mailto:spike@rainier66.com">spike@rainier66.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Zowwie, 23andMe has put me into a hell of an ethical dilemma, or perhaps more accurately, I have put myself in an ethical dilemma. Advice or comment from ethical hipsters most welcome.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Background: inside of two weeks, I have discovered a second illegitimacy in my own ancestry. We knew from family tradition that one of our great great grandfathers was an illegitimate born in about 1855, so that branch of the tree came to an end, and has been a dead end for over a century: no one knew who his bio father was. I compared notes with a 23andMe cousin, and between us we figured out the likely candidate. Hey, it was 1855, in a town three hours from anything, with a total population of 200 people. In those kinds of places, after dark there is nothing to do. I was delighted to know this of course, and to be the first in the family to discover it.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Yesterday, a young lady contacted me because I was on her list of 3<sup>rd</sup> or 4<sup>th</sup> cousins from 23andMe. She didn’t know how to use any of the software tools in that, but suggested we share genomes, which I did. She revealed that she was an illegitimate child raised by a stepfather She commented that she wanted to find her bio-father but didn’t know where or how to do those kinds of searches and couldn’t afford a professional, and that the only thing she knew about her bio father was all her mother would tell: first name, middle initial and last name, which isn’t much. But it is an unusual last name, and it matched one of the oddball names in my 23andMe list.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>This young lady is clearly unsophisticated, as is easy to tell from her post. Less than an hour of searching through Facebook pages, genealogy sites and Spokeo, I figured out who is the likely father, and that he lives not all that far from this third cousin.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Ethical dilemma: do I tell her? <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>My ethics intuition suggests that I refrain from mentioning even that I have that info. Unless someone comes up with an argument to the contrary, good chance I will stifle it. Principle: don’t reveal information against someone else’s will. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>But what if it contradicts the will of a third party who may be morally entitled to that information?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Is it clear now that 23andMe will lead to tall piles of these kinds of moral dilemmas, and people’s reaction to them will be all over the map. I don’t feel very comfortable with either of my choices in this case.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Gina Nanogirl Miller, comments please? Max and the ethics hipsters, comments please? What would Anders do?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>spike<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>extropy-chat mailing list<br><a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat" target="_blank">http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>