<div dir="ltr">Good advice, Spike. It got me to thinking about this equation:<div><br></div><div style>DNA + 23andMe + NSA = WTF?!</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 11:43 AM, spike <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:spike@rainier66.com" target="_blank">spike@rainier66.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
<br>
STOP FUCKING! IMMEDIATELY!<br>
<br>
At least until you read this post please, all the way to the bottom, or if<br>
you are in a hurry, read only the last sentence which pretty much sums up<br>
the rest of it.<br>
<br>
>... On Behalf Of BillK<br>
<div class="im">Subject: Re: [ExI] 23andme again<br>
<br>
</div><div class="im">On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 4:07 PM, spike wrote:<br>
</div>>>... I don't know what happens in those long-cold cases where the contact<br>
<div class="im">> occurred at a party, no commitments were made, the mother had several<br>
> similar-looking partners, so no one paid child support, then many<br>
> years later it becomes possible to determine which is the bio-father.<br>
> Can the offspring now sue retroactively for 18 yrs of child support?<br>
> This is legally unfamiliar territory.<br>
><br>
<br>
</div>>...Being the USA, probably the laws are different from state to state.<br>
>:)<br>
<br>
>...But generally, if there was no child support order made when the child<br>
was a minor then after 18 years old, it's too late...<br>
<br>
Thanks BillK. After I read your reply, it occurred to me that it wouldn't<br>
need to be 18 yrs later. To get DNA read, all it takes is a few cc of spit.<br>
Anyone could do this on a baby; even a babysitting grandmother could collect<br>
the sample without anyone knowing, since baby slobber is in plentiful<br>
supply. 23andMe doesn't know whose spit they are analyzing or who sent it.<br>
They do what software does: takes the sample, does the analysis, dumps the<br>
results onto a website where you have the option of revealing your identity<br>
or not. Only about a third of the users reveal their identity, and even<br>
then, you are not required to use the right one.<br>
<br>
>...The father cannot be liable for unpaid child support if no order was<br>
made and the child is now an adult...<br>
<br>
Ja, but what if the child is a newborn? With 18 yrs of potential child<br>
payments ahead of the bio-father? See the first line in this post please.<br>
<br>
>...Yes, I was afraid that at first you were only looking at the situation<br>
<div class="im">from the POV of problem-solving to help the young lady. There are three<br>
people involved, father, mother and child, all with rights to be<br>
</div>considered...<br>
<br>
Ja. I have been working to master the software tools in 23andMe. It<br>
occurred to me that ANYONE could have done what I did. Once they get some<br>
skills with the many ancestry tools available, they don't need to be a<br>
genetic relative to figure out what I found. It helped to verify, since I<br>
had a huge clue, that the relationship to her had to be through her<br>
bio-father, and he has an oddball name. Later I found she was born in a<br>
very small town in a state where abortions are damn near impossible to get,<br>
so the puzzle pieces began to fall together easily.<br>
<br>
The lesson here is that if one copulates carelessly, there is a new threat.<br>
It used to be just herpes and AIDS. But now we have a SERIOUS threat, such<br>
as the sleazy sorority girl at that party has a mother who can figure out<br>
which of the frat brothers impregnated her drunken daughter, and she wants<br>
payments on that baby to begin forthwith.<br>
<br>
>...But the transparent society is approaching fast and laws and society<br>
<div class="im">>will have to try and adjust. BillK<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
</div>BillK, I made a table of my 100 closest genetic matches. The first column<br>
indicates male or female, the second column indicates relationship. 2-4<br>
means second thru fourth cousin. All 100 are cousins. I used the code id<br>
to indicate if there is any identification, including just a first name.<br>
Reasoning: many of the women use their maiden names in this activity, even<br>
if they are happily married. Some of the participants think they are<br>
anonymizing themselves but are not. For instance, one guy nicknamed himself<br>
by what looked like three initials and a city name, for instance a nickname<br>
in the form of ejtashville (intentionally obfuscated.) He may have thought<br>
he was anonymous with that handle (which I obfuscated, it isn't really<br>
ejtashville). I googled on "ejtashville," found a guy with initials ejt<br>
from Ashville who mentions 23andMe on his otherwise uninformative facebook<br>
page. That took me less than 10 seconds to find him, along a photograph,<br>
with the names of his family members. I have half a mind to contact the guy<br>
and tell him if he wants to be anonymous, work harder at it.<br>
<br>
Note that 35 of the top 100 provided some form of ID. The other 2/3 gave<br>
nothing at all. You can contact them thru 23-mail, but you don't know who<br>
they are or anything about them. If they choose, they might communicate<br>
back with you thru 23-mail, but as far as I can tell, this is a rare form of<br>
secure communications from the outside world point of view. There is no way<br>
to trace it back to an individual person that I can see. 23andMe needs to<br>
know some kind of email @ to contact you when your results are ready, but<br>
you can set up a gmail account and use it only for that, or set up a<br>
bulletin board anonymously if you wish. 23andMe has no way of knowing who<br>
you are, even though they know the contents of your DNA and who you are<br>
related to.<br>
<br>
Note that 24 of the men provided some form of ID, as did 11 of the women.<br>
65 provided no ID and no means of contacting other than thru 23-mail:<br>
<br>
1 m 2-4<br>
2 m 2-4<br>
3 f 3-4 id<br>
4 f 3-4 id<br>
5 m 3-4<br>
6 f 3-4<br>
7 f 3-4<br>
8 m 3-4<br>
9 f 3-4<br>
10 f 3-4<br>
11 f 3-5 id<br>
12 f 3-5 id<br>
13 f 3-5<br>
14 m 3-5 id<br>
15 f 3-5 id<br>
16 m 3-5 id<br>
17 f 3-5<br>
18 m 3-5 id<br>
19 f 3-5<br>
20 f 3-5<br>
21 m 3-5 id<br>
22 m 3-5 id<br>
23 m 3-5<br>
24 m 3-5<br>
25 m 3-5 id<br>
26 m 3-5<br>
27 m 3-5<br>
28 f 3-5 id<br>
29 m 3-5<br>
30 f 3-5<br>
31 m 3-5 id<br>
32 m 3-5 id<br>
33 f 3-5<br>
34 f 3-5<br>
35 m 3-5 id<br>
36 f 3-5<br>
37 f 3-5<br>
38 f 3-5 id<br>
39 m 3-5 id<br>
40 f 3-5<br>
41 m 3-5 id<br>
42 m 3-5<br>
43 f 3-6<br>
44 m 3-6 id<br>
45 m 3-6<br>
46 m 3-6<br>
47 m 3-6 id<br>
48 m 3-6<br>
49 f 3-6<br>
50 f 3-6<br>
51 m 3-6 id<br>
52 m 3-6<br>
53 m 3-6<br>
54 m 3-6<br>
55 f 3-6<br>
56 f 3-6<br>
57 f 3-6<br>
58 m 3-6<br>
59 f 3-6<br>
60 m 3-6 id<br>
61 m 3-6<br>
62 f 3-6<br>
63 f 3-6<br>
64 f 3-6<br>
65 m 3-6 id<br>
66 m 3-6 id<br>
67 m 3-6 id<br>
68 m 3-6 id<br>
69 m 3-6<br>
70 f 3-6 id<br>
71 m 3-6 id<br>
72 f 3-6 id<br>
73 m 3-6<br>
74 f 3-6<br>
75 f 3-6<br>
76 f 3-6<br>
77 f 3-6<br>
78 m 3-6 id<br>
79 m 3-6<br>
80 f 3-6<br>
81 m 3-6<br>
82 m 3-6<br>
83 f 3-6<br>
84 m 3-6 id<br>
85 m 3-6<br>
86 f 3-6<br>
87 m 3-6<br>
88 f 3-6<br>
89 m 3-6 id<br>
90 m 3-6 id<br>
91 m 3-6<br>
92 m 3-6<br>
93 m 3-6<br>
94 f 3-6<br>
95 f 3-6<br>
96 f 3-6 id<br>
97 m 3-6<br>
98 f 3-6 id<br>
99 m 3-6<br>
100 m 3-6<br>
<br>
I have contacted about a dozen or so of my closest relatives and a few more<br>
down lower on the list whose family names match those I know from my own<br>
genealogy. I get replies from about half. Some of those on this list might<br>
be babies, but not mine I can assure you.<br>
<br>
If anyone here gets anything out of this post, it is that our hiding places<br>
are becoming as transparent as glass. Take heed if you are engaging in<br>
careless copulation: if your partner becomes impregnated by you, she can now<br>
find you easily enough if any of your even distant cousins have done<br>
23andMe. Over 300k-proles have done 23andME, and the number grows by<br>
several hundred a day. I have 993 people on my DNA match list. Guys, see<br>
the first line of this post please. Otherwise take careful precautions,<br>
especially if you are on some wild fling in Vegas or on spring break in<br>
Daytona where you think no one knows you. This is your good old Uncle Spike<br>
talking here guys, and I am giving you some critically important advice. I<br>
mean it.<br>
<br>
Parting shot: I pondered BillK's comment and I still think the same as<br>
before. If you sire a pup, I feel as though that offspring's right to know<br>
who you are outweighs your right to hide. I will not reveal you<br>
intentionally, but your DNA will, even if it was a distant cousin who sent<br>
DNA to 23. Pay attention and walk circumspectly please.<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
spike<br>
</font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>