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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>>…</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Adrian Tymes<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] (In)voluntary technology<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>>…</span>On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 9:19 AM, David Lubkin <<a href="mailto:lubkin@unreasonable.com" target="_blank">lubkin@unreasonable.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>What technologies are there whose use courts have conceded isn't<br>"entirely voluntary," or even "isn't voluntary"?<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>Basically, stuff even the Amish use - or, especially, are compelled by law to use. Stuff like vaccinations for school children. <span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The distinction of voluntary vs involuntary brings in an answer to a question privacy advocates were not asking. The implication is that if anyone uses a cell phone, the fed is justified in intercepting the signal since the use of a cell phone is voluntary. This is a new take on an old question.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I urge those interested in this topic to focus on the bigger picture. As far as I can tell, there is nothing in the US constitution that specifically forbids the fed from collecting the content of a phone conversation or email, and nothing in the US constitution that specifically forbids the fed from using the IRS to destroy anyone for any reason, including it simply wants the assets of the victim. The IRS is not required to present evidence to any oversight committee.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I see nothing in the constitution that forbids the US government from collecting email, which might contain blasphemy against for instance Joseph Smith, and handing it over to some government where there is no freedom of speech when it comes to blasphemy against Smith, and no serious requirement for solid evidence that the accused perpetrated the blasphemy. Life sentences and even death sentences could be handed out at the whim of that government to anyone it catches within its borders.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If we fail to see the need to check the power of every government with any form of unchecked power, then we have failed to learn anything from the bitter experience of Germany with tyrants.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>A key observation to me is that for the first time, the US fed is loudly asserting its right to do anything it wants, so long as it is not specifically forbidden by the constitution. This would include powers such as seizing information and using the IRS as a weapon. We can argue that the fed had these powers for a long time. Now it is using these powers, and defying objectors to demonstrate how it is illegal.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>spike<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>