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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>>…</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Adrian Tymes<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] Euthanasia<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><br>On Oct 10, 2013 7:55 AM, "John Clark" <<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span> Speaking of stupid, that same political party has also come to think that not paying your bills will calm down your creditors<span style='color:#1F497D'>…</span> now I am ashamed to belong to the party of Lincoln<span style='color:#1F497D'>…</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='color:#1F497D'>I don’t understand why US creditors are as calm as they are. We are saying we must be allowed to borrow more money at a faster pace in order to pay our bills for things we have already bought. But a crazy faction is saying no, if we pay bills with borrowed money, we haven’t really paid our bills at all, but rather merely rearranged credit ratings as we rack up ever higher bills. We have a president who says things like:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>"Now, this debt ceiling -- I just want to remind people in case you haven't been keeping up -- <b><u>raising the debt ceiling, which has been done over a hundred times, does not increase our debt</u></b>; it does not somehow promote profligacy. All it does is it says you got to pay the bills that you've already racked up, Congress. It's a basic function of making sure that the full faith and credit of the United States is preserved."<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='color:#1F497D'>By what line of reasoning does raising the debt ceiling not result in increased debt? Is he claiming that if we raise this debt limit we will not borrow the money? If he thinks we will not borrow more money, why do we need to authorize it? We have hit this debt limit over 100 times and increased it. Every single time the US government borrowed all it was allowed to borrow and has come back for more, as it is doing now. I consider that pretty good evidence that it will happen again. In that sense raising the debt limit is equivalent to borrowing that amount of money.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='color:#1F497D'>Remind me again John why it is you are ashamed to belong to the party of Lincoln?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='color:#1F497D'>The same president who is now telling us raising the debt ceiling does not increase our debt seven years ago uttered this:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>'The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that "the buck stops here." Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.' <br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Which sounds right to you? John, which of these comments sounds more right? I’ll take the second one from 2006. Show me even one reckless fiscal policy which has ended since 2006, and I can show you a dozen new reckless policies that have replaced it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Remind me again please that bit about we need to borrow more money to preserve the full faith and credit of the US?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This government healthcare scheme DEFINITELY does shift the burden onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. That in itself is bad enough, but consider what happens when it becomes obvious that our children and grandchildren cannot afford even their own health insurance, never mind ours.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In specifically disowning his 2006 commentary, the president suggested he was engaging in political gamesmanship back then. Well OK, how do we know he isn’t doing that now? US creditors are asked to rely on the full faith and credit of the US, if we demonstrate not only that we cannot live on what we make, but our accounting system absolutely demands we waste money, tall piles of it:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/07/new-air-force-cargo-planes-fly-straight-into-mothballs/">http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/07/new-air-force-cargo-planes-fly-straight-into-mothballs/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>That O-care website Healthcare.gov which doesn’t work right and looks like a phishing scam cost the US government over 600 million dollars. And it isn’t a minor glitch. I checked it this morning and it still isn’t working.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I used BillK’s site this morning to see numbers so shocking it gave me a clear view of how this will all play out in the near term future. The ones who manage to penetrate this healthcare.gov system will find they misunderstood what this new law does if you are poor: very little. They will get quoted numbers far higher than you can afford, then they will be reminded that they must buy something or face a fine, and the people who will levy the fine know everything they need to know because of the info you just entered, thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Anders can you see why this whole thing has generated distrust and bilious political sniping everywhere in the US? One party gained a supermajority in 2008. A filibuster-proof supermajority means they did not need to debate anything in public, for any actual debate on the content of the proposed law could just be mislabeled filibuster and ended by supermajority vote, which it was. Then the whole thing could be designed off the record, possibly including the use of threats, bribes or any other available means, which it likely was. This whole mess was designed in secret and passed by brute force without a single minority party vote in either house, not one. And even after it was brought up for vote, the majority party leader admitted they passed this mess without knowing what was actually in the bill. They couldn’t have known: they were making changes right up to the last minute, there wasn’t time to even read the thing, never mind have legitimate debate on it. I am not kidding:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoE1R-xH5To">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoE1R-xH5To</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So they own this damn thing. If it fails spectacularly, it will likely destroy the existing healthcare system and along with it that party which designed the failed fix, which merely took a broken system and broke it even more. That will fundamentally alter the face of politics in the country for a generation if not longer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>John why is it you are ashamed of being a Republican?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>Technically both parties are Lincoln's: the Democrats split off from the Democratic-Republican party<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='color:#1F497D'>Ja, the Republicans were the party of abolition. The Democrats were the party of slavery. It sure looks to me like that party is trying to force us back into slavery. John, remind me why it is you are ashamed to be registered with the party of abolition please?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>That said, "brain damage" is an apt way to describe the TEA Party's takeover of the Republicans over the past decade or so<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ja those crazy fools believe the government should live within its means. It is the rise of a party of Friedrich Hayek. Insane, dangerous people are these. Not. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>spike<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>