<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>Some good thoughts in your missive.<br><br></div>Keep in mind that all humans have the same genes except for outward appearance. All 'evil' types are long gone. There is a movement towards reducing the population to two people, like Eden because of a massive guilt complex. It is felt that humans have spoiled the planet (in fact cleanup is still underway with billions of robots in the oceans etc. cleaning up chemicals). So they want to redesign man so that this will never happen again. They are so fervent that it is almost like a religion.<br>
<br></div>All work towards this goal. In their past when someone wasn't 'with the program' their genes were cast out of the mix. In fact, including a person's genes in the mix is the ultimate reward, though now all are the same.<br>
<br></div>I will not be writing about all the changes in politics/government that led to that future state. YOu seem to be a libertarian, as am I, but given the circumstances they have where everyone has access to everything, everything free, no one in poverty, the democratic socialism seems to be the best solution. Prior to the time I will be writing about, anyone could just stay at home, watch TV, do drugs, and loll around. Their punishment was to see their genes examined and their laziness eliminated in future babies.<br>
<br></div><div>I am assuming nearly complete control of immune system attacks, mostly by early detection and setting bug against bug - that is, get the gene code of the bug and design a bug to kill it and then die itself. Actually I think this sort of thing is happening as we write and will be common in a few decades.<br>
</div><div><br></div>So, I am presenting the idea of perfection and asking if it is indeed perfect (as are they).<br><br></div>You seem to assume that our aggressiveness is necessary to out survival. I argue that we already don't need it. We don't need to get angry. That just stresses the body. So eliminate it. That won't make us all wimps. Redesign everything. If you want people who are eager to go to work, find the right gene combinations and make babies with them. Ditto for anything else that is genetic, and I think just about everything can be manipulated that way.<br>
<br></div>Robots do all the work necessary for producing food, clothes, everything. People program them, do scientific research, learn languages, play instruments, invent dances, study history, watch old movies (not the violent ones). <br>
<br>I am assuming that AI doesn't get to the point where real creativity is possible, so humans have to do it. There is a lot more, like antigravity, teleportation (storing recycling stuff on the Moon).<br><br><br></div>
I have trouble with my idea of their being noncompetitive, more of an Asian type of ethos where the individual doesn't seek the spotlight. Will they still be really creative? If an individual is, then will they not think they are better than someone else? This will be part of my satire, based on a saying I made up: "The easiest thing for a person to believe is that he is better than someone else." bill<br>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 5:31 AM, Alex Blainey <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ablainey@aol.com" target="_blank">ablainey@aol.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><font color="black" face="arial"><font>A few ideas, </font>You<font>r starting point is ideology and morals. All technological advancement and human re-engineering will stem from that.<br>
A simple example: Is your ideology that humans should work colaborativley towards a common good as in communism, socialism or some variant? Or is the ideology founded on creating the good of the individual as per libertarianism?<br>
</font>
<div> <font>If society concentrates on ensuring the rights of all individuals then the common good is always the result. However if society concentrates on that common good end result directly then all individual good, rights, property etc can be destroyed in the name of the common good. Paradoxically resulting in no common good at all. See any and all socialist states for reference.</font><br>
<font>What you end with is something like the old Huxley vs Wells scenarios. A brave new world nightmare or distopian communist nightmare. Take your pick.<br>
<br>
The resultant technologies which come from the streams of ideology would vary, but in many cases would be the same but with a different focus on reason.<br>
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<div> <font>Eugenics to eliminate physical imperfection: because it reduces suffering of the individual ~vs~ because it creates a better worker.<br>
Then you also need consider that streamlining the human genome creates a far greater threat of pandemic. Which needs to be offset by tinkering with the immune system. Maybe with unseen issue on reproduction where germ line cells of a sexual partner are seen as invading threats and destroyed. The result being sterility of the race without machine intervention.<br>
Alternatively humans need to be segregated from any external threat from pathogens, so they live in isolation from nature. A sterile *white* existence. Artificial food, no human contact all that 60's retro future stuff mixed in with a bit of demolition man.<br>
<br>
You could consider the social conventions that we have put in place and how they pan out. Take "professionalism" as an example. The system of acting in a way that removes natural warm, friendly human interaction rules and replaces them<br>
with a cold clean set of interaction rules based on increasing productivity. Effectively teaching and demanding that people be semi-autistic at work. Do we recode genes to make people more professional?? How far would those enhanced people then take it?<br>
We could end up with a society of genetically enhanced autistics. I'd argue we are already naturally heading in that direction. The conventions of civilised life replacing evolutionary pressure.<br>
</font>
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<div> <br>
<font>Whats the end goal of the writing, Show how it will be or how we would like it to be?</font><br>
<font>If you are aiming for an idealistic paradise of high technology and perfect people, you really need to look at what underlying Constitution would allow that future to exist. Harder than than, what kind of human needs to be there in order to see that world as paradise? How could that kind of person have come into being? Are they still like us or will we need to change in order to find paradise? Many won't stand for such a boring world, how do you remove such natural instinct to change, seek out greener pastures etc. How do you get rid of the natural tedence to war without removing the drive to survive?<br>
<br>
Back tracking will answer what eugenic influence needs to happen. Most writers don't bother and employ the old "historic war" that resulted in such a world. Tey skip around the problem that if everone is a Liberal, Nazi, Muslim, christian, communist, capitalist etc everyone else needs to die before peace reigns and this brave new can exist. Is there a way around that through eugenics? Engineered ideology producing a human that only focuses on doing their bit of the equation without trying to control others? But still resulting in the common good and without individual suffering or sacrifice?</font><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
A<br>
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<div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,helvetica"><div><div class="h5">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: William Flynn Wallace <<a href="mailto:foozler83@gmail.com" target="_blank">foozler83@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
Sent: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 1:40<br>
Subject: [ExI] far future<br>
<br>
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<div>I am writing a book on the far future based on eugenics. Then, genetics has been nearly perfected and many changes have been made to humans, both physical and mental.<br>
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I would like to find out fellow members' ideas on just what changes should be made in us if that were possible and discuss them. And yes, I might include them in my book and give you credit.<br>
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I am new to the list and maybe have filled up emailboxes with unwanted content. If so please excuse. I do not know how to find my topic or members who might be interested.<br>
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I am an old social psychologist.<br>
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Sincerely, <br>
<br>
William F Wallace<br>
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Brandon MS USA<br>
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