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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>>…On Behalf Of </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>John Clark<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] BICEP2 and the Fermi paradox<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 3:21 PM, spike <<a href="mailto:spike66@att.net" target="_blank">spike66@att.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> It [the New Testament] makes comments in there about the final fate of the wicked unbelievers, but it doesn’t actually say anything about an immoral soul, or that the suffering of the damned is eternal. <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>I think the Bible is as clear as it is morally corrupt on this subject. Consider Revelation 20:10<br><br>" And the devil, who deceived them,<a name=1></a> was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur,<a name=2></a> where the beast<a name=3></a> and the false prophet<a name=4></a> had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."<span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ja, that’s the devil, the beast and the false prophet, not the humans. It might be interpreted as humans I will grant, but it isn’t specific. The devil is a supernatural being, the beast is apparently some member of the animal kingdom specifically not human and the false prophet I suppose is human.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Or Mark 3:29:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>"he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation".<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ja. Doesn’t say the eternally damned are actually alive.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Or this quotation from Jesus in Matthew 25:41:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>"Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ja. Angels are not humans. The devil is superhuman.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Or Mark 9:43<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched"<span style='color:#1F497D'>…</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ja. It sounds to me like going into hell is specifically differentiated and contrasted from the opposite, which is to enter into life.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal>> The worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched (Mark ch.9) but that’s the worm and the fire, not the damned humans.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>Spike, is it your position that when the Bible refers to a "worm" it is not referring to a human of somewhat low moral character but to an invertebrate in the phylum Nematoda? <span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We don’t know. I expect that some of the bible writers may have had the notion of eternal flames with living beings suffering, but in general this is a more recent theological invention, one that sold like hotcakes once it was introduced, and thus spawned successfully.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span> If that is true then the author of the Bible really needs to take a creative writing class to improve His clarity of expression.<span style='color:#1F497D'> </span>John K Clark <span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ja granted. My notion in all this is that most of our traditional visions of eternally burning hell with former humans immortalized in order to suffer are from more recent times, and were defined by Dante’s Inferno in the 14<sup>th</sup> century. The whole notion was popular as hell.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>When we claim Christianity is morally bankrupt because it carries the notion of a god who tortures unbelievers eternally, we inadvertently promote those segments of Christianity which specifically deny this feature of mainstream Christianity, such as Seventh Day Adventist.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>spike<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>