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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Tara Maya<br><br><b><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></b></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>>>…</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>My notion is that most of what we now consider more precious than oil can be eliminated and we can still have a good life, while using way less energy, way less.</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>I'm surprised at you, Spike. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>Just as no one has the right to tell me, for political reasons, that I have no right to watch my kids play soccer, so I consider it rather obnoxious to tell me that it's a "waste" of energy to do so<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Indeed not madam. There are no political considerations anywhere in the discussion. The factors controlling these matters will be entirely economic. Really where I was going was not eliminating these matters but recognizing we can take longer to get there, and vastly reduce the cost of getting there. We don’t need to tear around the way we do.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>Children, work, trade, sports, health, family, entertainment and politics?! (You only left out dating. Let me add it back into that list.) The things you disparage are life itself, not incidental to life<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Sure, do them. Take your time. Accept a conveyance that accelerates at 0.2 G and tops out about 100 kph, and there you have it: a conveyance which carries perhaps 8 liters of Diesel and carries a prole 300 km, city or highway, not much difference. The vehicle I envision will not be as fast as our beloved V8s, but would be waaay cheaper to operate.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>Of course, you may make other choices, but that makes my choices no less important than yours<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>My vision allows you to not only keep your current choice, it adds a bunch of new ones. The only real downside I can see is that slowpokes might get in your way; that is a legitimate objection. But consider the sport car enthusiast who plunks down a few hundred K for a McLaren. That rig can go over 300 kph. The rest of us proles are always in her way. We can’t afford to go that fast.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I don’t intend to give up my beloved V8. But I can imagine a bunch of self-driving series hybrids always in my way. Then I get to feel like I am a frustrated McLaren driver, except for 4% the cost. Meanwhile, the McLaren driver shoots herself, liberating millions of dollars back into the economy. Almost everyone wins in that scenario.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>Freedom is what creates the good life<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Agreed. What I suggest not only does not reduce freedom, it increases it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span> Freedom from others restricting your actions is one component<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Good point. On the other hand, it might not do that at all. If low-end cars were slower, perhaps most people would think of alternatives to using them. This would make the roads less crowded. Perhaps the McLaren driver could weave in and out of the sparse remaining traffic. It would be better that she weave thru a few cars going 100 kph than a lot of them all going 120.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>freedom to take positive action is another. The first political, the second is technological. If we have less energy, our freedom to do what we want is severely impinged.<span style='color:#1F497D'> </span>Tara Maya<span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Tara you and I agree on all this. My notion is that it isn’t politics at work here, but rather birth rates and uncontrolled immigration. The current US government and its attitudes are on their way out (this isn’t hard to see); their successors will put in pipelines and drill baby drill, etc. But those are short term. Sooner or later, that game all comes to an end, since those billion new proles are coming, absolutely regardless of what we think of the matter. They are coming anyway, and they want to drive. So… <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>My notion is we need to make room for series hybrid cars, which are pokey and dangerous (they tend to get hit from behind by frustrated McLaren drivers.) But they are very efficient.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We can still have a good life, while using way less energy, way less.</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>spike<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>