<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div id="yiv4314289311"><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_7_1400947005533_4"> </div><div id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_7_1400947005533_5"></div><div id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_7_1400947005533_6"> William,</div><div id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_7_1400947005533_19"> </div><div id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_7_1400947005533_20">The problem with this is that you are conflating politics with idealogy. Arguing the merits of various ideologies is moot when *none* of the governments that claim to espouse an ideal actually even *try* to live up to it. So first make governments accountable to their rhetoric and
promises, then I will entertain the merits of various "isms" with you.</div><div id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_7_1400947005533_24"> </div><div id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_7_1400947005533_25">Until then, there seems to be only one true form of government in the world that obfuscates itself behind
diverse idealogical prpaganda: oligarchy. And so long as the oligarchs think that taxing the rich for welfare is the most cost effective way to deal with riots and anarchy, then we shall continue to have socialism. When the robot riot cops start popping up, well then its open season on the peasants.</div><div id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_7_1400947005533_7">
</div><div id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_9456">But if you must split hairs, the US seems to be evolving into a Soteriarchy. A government that stops at no expense to ensure the real or imagined safety of its citizens from threats be they real or imagined. Terrorism and Global Warming seem to spring to mind for possible imagined or at least exagerated threats. And of course you need to be protected from yourself, the Constitution be damned. </div><div id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_7_1400947005533_29" class="yiv4314289311qtdSeparateBR"> </div><div id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_7_1400947005533_34" class="yiv4314289311qtdSeparateBR">Stuart<br id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6945" clear="none"></div><div id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_7_1400947005533_31" class="yiv4314289311qtdSeparateBR">P.S. Sorry for the top posting but Yahoo leaves me little choice. </div><div style="display: block;"
id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_7_1400947005533_9" class="yiv4314289311yahoo_quoted"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;" id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6030" class="yiv4314289311ms__id1217"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6029" class="yiv4314289311ms__id1218"> <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div id="yiv4314289311yqt36752" class="yiv4314289311yqt7322041369"><div dir="ltr" id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6050"> <font id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6051" size="2" face="Arial"> On Saturday, May 24, 2014 8:28 AM, William Flynn Wallace <foozler83@gmail.com> wrote:<br clear="none"> </font> </div> <blockquote style="padding-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(16, 16,
255); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;" id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6028"> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <div id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6027" class="yiv4314289311y_msg_container"><div id="yiv4314289311"><div dir="ltr" id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6026"><div style="color: rgb(11, 83, 148); font-family: comic sans ms, sans-serif; font-size: large;" id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6031" class="yiv4314289311gmail_default yiv4314289311ms__id1221">Libertarians don't like authority, or at least question it severely if it is some sort
of science thing. But look at the needs of society:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none"></div><div style="color: rgb(11, 83, 148); font-family: comic sans ms, sans-serif; font-size: large;" id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6025" class="yiv4314289311gmail_default yiv4314289311ms__id1222">Somebody has to :<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div style="color: rgb(11, 83, 148); font-family: comic sans ms, sans-serif; font-size: large;" class="yiv4314289311gmail_default yiv4314289311ms__id1223">
take out trash<br clear="none"></div><div style="color: rgb(11, 83, 148); font-family: comic sans ms, sans-serif; font-size: large;" id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6032" class="yiv4314289311gmail_default yiv4314289311ms__id1224">fix roads<br clear="none"></div><div style="color: rgb(11, 83, 148); font-family: comic sans ms, sans-serif; font-size: large;" id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6033" class="yiv4314289311gmail_default yiv4314289311ms__id1225">
put out fires<br clear="none"></div><div style="color: rgb(11, 83, 148); font-family: comic sans ms, sans-serif; font-size: large;" class="yiv4314289311gmail_default yiv4314289311ms__id1226">catch bad guys<br clear="none"></div><div style="color: rgb(11, 83, 148); font-family: comic sans ms, sans-serif; font-size: large;" id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6034" class="yiv4314289311gmail_default yiv4314289311ms__id1227">
etc.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div style="color: rgb(11, 83, 148); font-family: comic sans ms, sans-serif; font-size: large;" id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6035" class="yiv4314289311gmail_default yiv4314289311ms__id1228">So what we do is pool out money through taxes and pay others to do this. OK, so this is kindergarten level, but wait.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none"></div><div style="color: rgb(11, 83, 148); font-family: comic sans ms, sans-serif; font-size: large;" id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6036" class="yiv4314289311gmail_default yiv4314289311ms__id1229">We have a right to hate communism based on its record in Russia, N Korea, Cuba and others. But wait: all of these are authoritarian-based. Aside from some hippie communes, where has libertarian socialism been practiced? <br clear="none">
<br clear="none"></div><div style="color: rgb(11, 83, 148); font-family: comic sans ms, sans-serif; font-size: large;" id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6037" class="yiv4314289311gmail_default yiv4314289311ms__id1230">Many of us hated Carl Rogers and his feel-good, unconditional positive regard theory of child raising. But - has it ever been really tried? Probably not, almost certainly not. As soon as a kid left his house he would be treated much differently.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none"></div><div style="color: rgb(11, 83, 148); font-family: comic sans ms, sans-serif; font-size: large;" id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6053" class="yiv4314289311gmail_default yiv4314289311ms__id1231">So we need socialism, like police departments - its' just a question of how much we will have. This group knows this, and knows that people on the right and people on the left will never ever agree on how much to take from individuals to benefit society.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none"></div><div style="color: rgb(11, 83, 148); font-family: comic sans ms, sans-serif; font-size: large;" id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6038" class="yiv4314289311gmail_default yiv4314289311ms__id1232">Or maybe 14 trillion dollars of debt is a good stopping point. bill w<br clear="none"></div></div></div><br id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6062" clear="none">_______________________________________________<br id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6061" clear="none">extropy-chat mailing list<br id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6060" clear="none"><a id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6039" href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6059" clear="none"><a id="yiv4314289311yui_3_16_0_1_1400947005533_6054"
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