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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Eugenio Martínez<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] Be nice to leftists<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.55pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'>>>…</span>The Chinese would never have suffered the horrors of the 20th century had they the right to own guns<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.55pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>Years and years and years of civilians having guns at homes, years and years and years of civilians being killed<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.55pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.55pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'>All those combined would scarcely scratch the surface of the numbers of Chinese the Japanese slew without any effective opposition.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.55pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span> Spanish civil war showed what happened with armed population during a armed conflict: They joined the army that they were in favour... and killed and raped and made a lot of revenges and lootering in every small town and every ungoverned city<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>So don’t be Spain. Be America.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span> In Europe only the nazis parties and maybe a rare couple more are pro-weapons<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'>That is a puzzling attitude, considering Herr Hitler’s first job was to disarm the German people. As soon as he did, there were no checks to his power grabs, none. Once only the Nazis were armed, whoever controlled the military controlled everything.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>Capitalism is the way? 16.7 million children living in food insecure households and US having the second highest relative child poverty rates in the developed world (2011 data. From wikipedia.)<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Ja. We don’t have real capitalism in the USA.</span><br><br><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>Yes. Is the way for rich people<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Capitalism makes you rich people.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal> <span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>And for a ecologically unsustainable way of life<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>On the contrary sir, capitalism is the path to an economically sustainable way of life. With capitalism we get the technology to clean our environment, as we have demonstrated in the past couple decades. Capitalism creates the wealth so that the consumer class can focus its attention on secondary needs such as ecological sustainability. People don’t worry about global warming in North Korea.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><br><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>You could think about Coca Cola or Nestle, two of the biggest and most succesful capitalist companies. In your country they are ok. They create a lot of jobs and helps a lot of people. In other countries, therefore, that companies uses slaves, destroy irreversibily a lot of natural places etc. Same with Zara (from my country). It is leftist being against slavery? Wow. Humanism for me<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I had an interesting experience just yesterday. I was in Costco and they were selling baskets handmade in Africa. We don’t have much stuff made in Africa here. Why is that? Plenty of low cost labor, seems like a manufacturers paradise. I looked at their literature which was being distributed at the shelves with the African baskets. They went on and on about their fair trade agreements and how they make sure no one is working for 40 cents an hour. OK then, but when I studied into it I learn that if an American distributor is buying stuff at a fair trade prices, it doesn’t stop the Africans from subcontracting to other Africans and paying them 40 cents an hour. If Costco is caught doing this, Costco stands to lose. So, we seldom see African manufactured goods. If we bought stuff from them manufactured at American minimum wage, the Africans would murder each other for those jobs. So we seldom buy anything from Africa other than raw materials and the occasional phishing scam. I see no end to that. Does your view of Humanism offer a suggestion?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>>…</span>You are intelligent people. You know perfectly that capitalism, as well as comunism, works very well in theory, but in a wicked way in the practice<span style='color:#1F497D'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>That isn’t the fault of the system, it is the fault of the wicked. Don’t buy from those companies. Capitalism is the way.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'>spike</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>