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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/25/2014 12:17 PM, William Flynn
Wallace wrote:<br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 12:43 PM,
Brent Allsop <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:brent.allsop@canonizer.com" target="_blank">brent.allsop@canonizer.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
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Hi Colin,<br>
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<div>Isn't the 'hard problem' all about knowing what
other minds are qualitatively like? (as in is my
redness the same as yours?)<br>
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Brent<br>
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Yes, do the research,</div>
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I hear you saying there are more than 20 thousand peer reviewed
publications, and that I should attempt to read them all. Might I
ask how many you've read, and how many do you fully understand? If
I asked you what are the best (i.e. most well accepted by the expert
theories in that 20 thousands works, might there be an easy to read,
concise, state of the theory, summary, somewhere. That's our goal
with the Consciousness Survey Project. (see Canonizer.com) So far,
evidence for how much expert consensus there is for the leading
theories is quite educational. I've been working on interviewing
experts for 6 years now, and integrating all their diverse theories
into the survey, with the goal of fully understanding all their
theories, and demonstrably knowing, concisely and quantitatively,
and in real time, what the best, and most rapidly emerging consensus
new theories are and which are old and now falsified for most. So
far we've integrated camps from Steven Lehar, David Chalmers, Daniel
Dennet, John Smythies, Stuart Hameroff, and about 50 others. It'd
be great to get your theories integrated into the survey, even if
you think this kind of stuff is not approachable via science.<br>
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans
ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(68,68,68);display:inline">but
I have to doubt that even if you can locate
consciousness in brain areas, just what kind of
explanation of it does that provide?</div>
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We're working on theoretical work, at Canoniizer.com, that predicts
scientists are about to do things like experimentally prove if there
is, or isn't things like "inverted qualia" and how they will do
this. In other words, could my redness experience be more like your
grenness, and visa versa, and how would scientifically know? And
more important than that, I'm a normal "tri chromat", and I
desperately know what the 4 color tetrachloride experience, which
I've never experienced before in my life, is like, and to be able to
experience all possible qualia in the entire universe. Oh, yea, and
I want to solve the "problem of other minds" experimentally, so that
everyone we agree that consciousness has, indeed, been fully
explained.<br>
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans
ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(68,68,68);display:inline">It
certainly won't answer Brent's problem above. Maybe not
ever.</div>
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I hear you so saying that these type of things are not approachable
via science or that you have no hope for such? The survey project
is proving there is more consensus that consciousness is
approachable via science than any other doctrine. Also, I hear you
saying that your paper has nothing to do with this kind of so call
'hard problem'. It looks to me like your entire paper is just about
stuff David Chalmers would say are 'easy problems'. The closest
thing to a 'hard problem' has to do with the problem I am talking
about above. And even that is predicted to be not that 'hard'. So
I don't understand why you are saying your paper is about the "hard
problem". If it isn't the 'hard problem' I'm talking about above,
what kind of 'hard problem' are you talking about in your paper?<br>
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans
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as they will find that not all brains do identical
things under identical conditions, if they haven't
already (likely).</div>
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This is a common mistaken objection people have towards stuff like
this being approachable via science. We are working on a paper that
shows how this kind of faithless thinking is mistaken. We are
predicting that there are 'elemental' qualia that have causal
properties, making them discoverable and 'effable' via scientific
experimental demonstration.):<br>
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<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y1iReFjNmMsqtWp4itNxlDDmpqE8jK2_apW827kQumU/edit?usp=sharing">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y1iReFjNmMsqtWp4itNxlDDmpqE8jK2_apW827kQumU/edit?usp=sharing</a><br>
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I'd be interested to know your thoughts. Specifically, if the
scientific experiments, like effing the ineffable, are achieved by
scientists as the paper is predicting they are about to do, would
something like a new qualia that you've never experienced before
being 'effed' to you, falsify your faithless beliefs that this kind
of stuff is not approachable via science?<br>
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Oh, and you didn't answer my question about if there is a free copy
of your paper? But, I must admit, I'm more interested in true hard
problems. I find it very hard to get motivated enough to have any
interest in easy problems.<br>
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Brent Allsop<br>
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans
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<div class="h5">On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 11:28 PM,
Colin Geoffrey Hales <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cghales@unimelb.edu.au"
target="_blank">cghales@unimelb.edu.au</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dear
Folk,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
thought you might be interested in the
following paper, which is essentially
my PhD outcome packaged into a journal
paper (49 pages!), contextualised with
respect to consciousness, and now
finally published in a special journal
issue on the ‘Hard problem of
Consciousness’. Online-ready only at
this point. Came out yesterday. There
are 14 supplementary videos.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
name="146d420f8ba7b235_146d38dedf7aa9dc__ENREF_1"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Hales,
Colin G. 2014: 'The origins of the
brain’s endogenous electromagnetic
field and its relationship to
provision of consciousness'. <i>Journal
of Integrative Neuroscience</i>,
Vol 13 Issue 2, pp. 1-49.</span></a><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.worldscientific.com/doi/abs/10.1142/S0219635214400056?queryID=%24%7bresultBean.queryID%7d"
target="_blank">http://www.worldscientific.com/doi/abs/10.1142/S0219635214400056?queryID=%24{resultBean.queryID}</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">ABSTRACT</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">As a
potential source of consciousness,
the brain's endogenous
electromagnetic (EM) field has much
to commend it. Difficulties
connecting EM phenomena and
consciousness have been exacerbated
by the lack of a specific conclusive
biophysically realistic mechanism
originating the EM field, its form
and dynamics. This work explores a
potential mechanism: the spatial and
temporal coherent action of
transmembrane ion channel currents
which simultaneously produce
electric and magnetic fields that
dominate all other field sources.
Ion channels, as tiny current
filaments, express, at a distance,
the electric and magnetic fields
akin to those of a short
(transmembrane) copper wire.
Following assembly of appropriate
formalisms from EM field theory, the
paper computationally explores the
scalar electric potential produced
by the current filaments responsible
for an action potential (AP) in a
realistic hippocampus CA1 pyramidal
neuron. It reveals that AP signaling
can impress a highly structured,
focused and directed
"sweeping-lighthouse beam" that
"illuminates" neighbors at mm
scales. Ion channel currents thereby
provide a possible explanation for
both EEG/MEG origins and recently
confirmed functional EM coupling
effects. Finally, a physically
plausible EM field decomposition is
posited. It reveals objective and
subjective perspectives intrinsic to
the membrane-centric field dynamics.
Perceptual "fields" can be seen to
operate as the collective action of
virtual EM-boson composites (called
qualeons) visible only by "being"
the fields, yet objectively appear
as the familiar EM field activity.
This explains the problematic
evidence presentation and offers a
physically plausible route to a
solution to the "hard problem".</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">For
those impoverished and for those
without institutional access I do
have the preprint. Just email me.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Traction.
Finally.
</span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d">J</span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Cheers</span><span></span></p>
<span><font color="#888888">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Colin
Hales</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</font></span></div>
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