<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">On Monday, September 29, 2014 4:45 PM, Kelly Anderson <<a href="mailto:kellycoinguy@gmail.com" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="link" x-apple-data-detectors-result="1">kellycoinguy@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></span><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">I'm inclined to question the example, and not simply because<br></span></font></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">of its broken window fallacy implications -- i.e., what roads<br></span></font></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">(even outside the aircraft industry) weren't taken -- but<br></span></font></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">because patents themselves are an example of government<br></span></font></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">intervention. It's not like it was a free market in aircraft<br></span></font></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">development and manufacture. Instead, the patent system <br></span></font></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">granted [temporary] monopolies. Yes, the government altered<br></span></font></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">the policy during the war, but this sounds a lot like the old<br></span></font></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">saw about the government breaking one's legs but then providing<br></span></font></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">a really fine wheelchair, then touting the benefits of said<br></span></font></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">wheelchair.<br></span></font></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></font></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">(Don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying absent patents everything<br></span></font></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">would move faster and all of us would get our deepest technological<br></span></font></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">desires to come true. Even so, there seems to be much evidence that<br></span></font></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">patents do more harm than good. See, for example,<br></span></font></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><a href="http://www.ics.uci.edu/community/news/press/view_press?id=89" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="link" x-apple-data-detectors-result="2">http://www.ics.uci.edu/community/news/press/view_press?id=89</a> )</span></font></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Yes, I did think of this while posting. However, in the days of<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">mechanical invention, I think patent law did far more good than<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">harm. Today, software and DNA patents do more harm, but<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">pharmaceutical and mechanical patents by and large seem like a<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">good idea to me.</span></font></blockquote><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>I'd have to see evidence for that.<br><br></span><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">If you read "The Most Powerful Idea in the World - A STORY OF<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">STEAM, INDUSTRY, AND INVENTION" by WILLIAM ROSEN, I think you<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">may end up agreeing with his hypothesis that the British patent<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">system was one of the most influential elements promoting the <br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">industrial revolution.</span></font></blockquote><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>I admit I haven't read that book... yet! :)<br><br></span><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Yes, I'm a libertarian bordering on anarchy. But one of the prime<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">roles of government is that of protecting property from thieves.</span></font></blockquote><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>For me, as you probably know, a libertarian who is not an anarchist is inconsistent.<br><br></span><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">The only difficulty here is whether you see intellectual property<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">as a valid form of property. And if it is, then you must concede<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">that the government has a legitimate interest (or rather the People<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">have a legitimate interest) in protecting that property (life,<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">liberty and property in the original) from others.</span></font></blockquote><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>There are serious problems with intellectual property inside the libertarian ambit. But let's say there is valid intellectual property, a bit problem then would be that the utilitarian argument would be irrelevant -- just like an argument that slavery was more efficient would be irrelevant. And it's harder to see why intellectual property would expire as it does under the current -- save for a ulitarian argument about it. (You wouldn't, as a libertarian, I trust, say that your ownership to your car expired after seventeen years simply because someone else might have produced your car by that time.)<br><br></span><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Now, I don't think software patents serve the same purpose today.<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">A software patent would be like Douglas Adams saying, "I want to<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">patent the phrase 'For a moment, nothing happened. Then, after a<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">second or so, nothing continued to happen.'" And to patent all<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">phrases that are even a little bit like that. Thus also protecting,<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">"I began walking to the store. After a moment, I continued to walk<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">to the store." which I Kelly Anderson just wrote somewhat<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">independently of the great said Adams.</span></font></blockquote><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>The libertarian case against patents also applies to copyrights too and these variations would be irrelevant.<br><br></span><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Thus software should be protected, IMHO, like authorship, by<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">copyright law, but not by patent law.</span></font></blockquote><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>I'm not sure that would prevent much here. And the duration of a copyright is much longer. Litigation around copyrights now can be all over the place, with things like song writers being sued for having a melody similar to another song. Doesn't always succeed, of course, and I'm not saying you must either agree with all aspects of current intellectual property law or embrace an anti-IP position. <br><br></span><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">If you disagree that intellectual property is actual property<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">in ANY case, then we have a different argument on our hands</span></font></blockquote><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>I see it as very problematic, especially from a libertarian point of view. I don't think it meshes well with libertarian theories of property. Of course, that said, yes, many libertarians do support intellectual property. But this isn't a numbers game, but whether it actually makes sense from that perspective.<br><br>But the argument I was raising here was two-fold:<br><br>1. Government granted patents to the Wrights in the first place, so this wasn't like a market anarchy in patents that the government suddenly intervened in because of war. It was merely trading one intervention for another.<br><br>2. It seems like the case for patents as spurs to innovation is not a slamdunk one<br><br></span><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">and in that case, I will side with Benjamin Franklin, who has<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">sufficient libertarian and capitalistic cajones for my purposes.</span></font></blockquote><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>This is an alien way of looking at things to me. I don't seek out a figure from history to rally around. I try to see if an argument has merit, regardless of who made it. In any case, Franklin was somewhat against patents, wasn't he? I've heard that he didn't patent any of his inventions, but I'm not well read on his life.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Dan<br> My latest Kindle book, "Born With Teeth," can be previewed at:<br><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N72FBA2" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="link" x-apple-data-detectors-result="3">http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N72FBA2</a></span></div></body></html>